My grinder ate a gas pipe!

[hedgesparrow]

as found on HSE page Gas mains and service pipes should be designed and installed in accordance with the requirements of the Pipelines Safety Regulations 1996 (PSR). PSR does not specify how deep mains and services should be laid.

 

However, the Regulations are supported by HSE guidance 'A guide to the Pipelines Safety Regulations 1996' and there is also a Health & Safety Commission [HSC] Approved Code of Practice and Guidance 'Design, construction and installation of gas service pipes'.

 

These publications refer to the Institution of Gas Engineers' guidance 'IGE/TD/3 Distribution Mains' and 'IGE/TD/4: Gas services' which specify the minimum depth of cover which gas mains and services should be laid in order to minimise the risk of accidental third party damage.

 

HSE expects mains and services to be laid at the depths specified in these publications unless other effective precautions are taken to minimise the risk of third party damage.

 

A gas main should normally be laid with a minimum depth of cover of 750 mm in a road or verge and 600 mm in a footpath.

A gas service pipe should normally be laid with a minimum depth of cover of 375 mm in private ground and 450 mm in footpaths and highways. trust this is of interest to all of you and do not get fobbed off being made to pay for there shoddy work not burying it to the depth it should be. makes me mad any private guy has to do it by the book as i had to for water and gas but ther own guys do what they want muppetts:mad1:

[Jesse]

rubbish its down in black and white they have to bury them at a certain depth and abide by certain rules and regs if they decide not to follow spec and law then there fault not yours bugger if i would pay them anything take me to court judge would throw it out. will do some reading and report back what i can find

 

You are correct, if any underground services are damaged and they were not correctly installed in accordance with NJUG10 or which ever governing body's recommendations, you should not be held accountable for any damages that have occurred, you could even submit a claim for damages to your grinder or any other expenses incurred as a result of compromising the incorrectly installed under ground services . Hold your hands in the air and ask them what your fine will be for damaging there services and they will present you with a bill. But if there services were laid correctly to the specifications as they are duty bound to install them by it is very unlikely your grinder would come any where near them. My copy of the document is in the barn but if you need to know I will look it up tomorrow. and reference quote.

[Pat Ferrett]

You are correct, if any underground services are damaged and they were not correctly installed in accordance with NJUG10 or which ever governing body's recommendations, you should not be held accountable for any damages that have occurred, you could even submit a claim for damages to your grinder or any other expenses incurred as a result of compromising the incorrectly installed under ground services . Hold your hands in the air and ask them what your fine will be for damaging there services and they will present you with a bill. But if there services were laid correctly to the specifications as they are duty bound to install them by it is very unlikely your grinder would come any where near them. My copy of the document is in the barn but if you need to know I will look it up tomorrow. and reference quote.

 

Cheers Jesse! thanks for taking the time to post and also the offer of help

[tubby]

Ok gas pipe!

 

Here is what to do! Take photo showing the depth of the pipe! I take it was a house feed 19mm and not bigger, show the Finish Ground Level and top of pipe, take a photo of the Pipe to show type and tell tails as talked about below. Report to the gas board turn the gas off to the property (this is very important) if you have Denso tape wrap it around the pipe to stem the flow then report the findings to your insurance! because if the feed is less then 450mm from finish ground level then the fault is on the gas board!!! Your insurance will fight this! BS code of practice states that all services in soft ground must be at least 450mm deep, 750mm in foot paths and roads. adding to this house feed under 30mm Dia do not need warning tape over them!! But you should have a copy of stats drawings and have a Calibrated CAT and Genny on site and a copy of your training Cert you might of been able to miss the service, I have known services to micro board! These feeds can be board under trees and hit in the past and this is also the fault of GAS Supplier! there are tell tails signs on the plastic pipe if this was the installation type used. All information should then be handed back to your insurance Who - will fight your case for you.

 

Just like to add that interfering with gas supplies (damaging them and not reporting them) is an Offence and can lead to imprisonment or large fines. Hence Turn the Gas Supply Off at the house. The last thing you want is the HSE breathing down your back.

[tubby]

you might also take the time to read HSg 47 as this sets out the basic before you brake the surface guide lines for service avoidance to be followed.

[benedmonds]

I know this is an old thread. But we got a bill for £450 when we hit one a few weeks back - 220mm down directly under a stump..

 

The site had been cat scanned and there was no indication on the pavement. When we queried the bill this was the response:

 

We acknowledge receipt of your email dated 8th June 2015 and would like to advise you of the following:

 

Each service pipe is designed and installed to carry natural gas safely, and in such a way that it is least likely to be subject to accidental damage. In this case, the pipe was damaged because the level of protection has been reduced possibly as a result of work (e.g. landscaping, construction of driveway). Or soil erosion over time. Please note that National Grid or its agents would originally lay gas pipe work at a recommended depth where ever possible, however surface levels can alter and it should be anticipated that the underground plant may be encountered during any groundwork. Please be advised that there is no statutory requirement under Health and Safety Guidelines to lay warning tape above the pipe.

 

The depth of the pipe can vary for several reasons, such as location of other utilities plant which must be avoided, method used to lay the service, vicinity to main or meter-box or soil erosion over time. This is by no means an exhaustive list.

 

We must advise that under the Health and Safety Guidelines there is no statutory requirement for a minimum depth when gas services are being laid, the depths are only a guide and pipes can be found at shallower depth. Contractors working on site should not rely on depth when carrying out work near gas services.

 

We appreciate that you had taken precautions before commencing your work; however we would like to advise you that the use of CAT scans will not reveal the position of most modern polyethylene services, and accordingly they should be located using safe hand digging practices.

 

Please note that the decision to raise an invoice for a damage call out is not made by the engineers but by the local network once the completed paperwork has been reviewed, and we have no record of any decision but the one made to invoice you for the repair costs.

 

Please be advised that where National Grid are required to attend an emergency call out to repair a damaged pipe, the costs will almost always be chargeable to the person responsible for that damage.

 

We do accept that our gas pipes are not intentionally damaged, please be advised that HSE expects contractors to meet their obligation to prevent damage to gas main/service which includes carrying out test hole during all significant excavation activities. This term is not National Grid specific and is used by all utility, groundwork and landscaping practitioners, however please note that it is still your sole responsibility to establish and verify position and route of all underground apparatus prior to your work and also to ensure that no utility services will be damaged during your work. As damage occurred to our plant we are entitled to recover remuneration of all associated costs.

 

In light of the above please be advised that this invoice remains payable.

 

National Grid:sneaky2:

Edited June 16, 2015 by benedmonds

[matelot]

Did you undertake trial holes? Perhaps you did and you were unlucky enough to have missed the pipeline?

 

Have you photos that shows the depth was likely to have been 220mm at installation?

 

tbh, I would probably play the "I'm very sorry but I undertook a cat scan and trial holes and nothings showed up, will you let me off this once?" game.

 

HSE says this:

 

"A gas service pipe should normally be laid with a minimum depth of cover of 375 mm in private ground and 450 mm in footpaths and highways."

 

Pipelines: frequently asked questions - FAQs

 

NG could still argue it was 375mm when the pipe was laid.

 

I was working on a motorway where a contractor had to pay £400k for shutting the motorway down - all due to an unrecorded gas valve.

[csservices]

We renewed a drain in a back garden the other year and came across the gas pipe, was'nt even 75mm down could of been hit by a garden fork 8)

[roseyweb]

Lesson to learn here is to report, move van or remove magnetic sign writing,

Give made up name and address

[TGB]

Are they seriously expecting people to remove stumps by hand-digging...