Slings or Knots

[tuttle]

sling

[BenR]

I do everything with a clove hitch tied off with a half hitch. When it comes to bigger stuff I use a rolling hitch which is basically a clove hitch with an extra wrap or two at the bottom. Mainly because we don't have any steel carabiners that are not fawked. Plus unless you have a spliced rigging line which I don't you need to tie a knot to put the carabiner on anyway.

[skip]

yeah Skip,

 

i heard what you saying but you got some research? i have! i been rigging like that for years. thats alot of research with different binneers, ropes, trees, people etc etc. Yes i agree when its huge negative rigging, i would use a shackle. i would love to see this research tho?

 

i know about side loading but ....... halving the load of a sling? probs static too? and most of the ones i've seen are frayed, old and very faded. Rope on Rope? potential for the binneer to the sling to twist in motion and side load? Knots in rope?.....

 

these are all questions and obseverations to take into account of each one and add together, now have you created a stronger rigging system?. this was my point, the bigger picture and smaller details.

 

i am not saying by any means this is everyones gear, just alot i seen and worked with. i agree it can be quicker setting up a few slings at once. but most often its not needed unless you doing Heli work. If your removing a whole tree, nothing wrong with bineer through the crotch until you get to the big stuff. that is quicker than a sling on both ends, in my opinion.

 

i wish i could find out the forces but alas thats not going to happen. i am just speaking from my experiences. i think slings are good for static lifting. You already have a huge adjustable sling in your hand!

 

To be fair i most worked with good groundies and they know how to rig. this greatly reduces the forces and i dont think you get near breaking a bineer. and if you are then, you already know your self thats its dodgy and you should use something else. Education is the main factor and its cool to discuss these different point.

 

Quote....

 

it is sooo avoidable and at no aditional time cost, it's not even lazy, its completely un-nesisary!

 

hmmmmmm, lol thats a pretty funny quote!

 

Mog

 

how much do you think a half hitch & timber hitch or marl & timber hitch/RB reduces a rope's stregth by? Also when chokering biners i'm not just talking about static 1 pull stregth i'm concerned with CTF's! i rig on allmost every job, it's what i do, I also do over 100 configuratinal pull tests a year, I am also willing to race anyone who thinks they can half hitch & choker a rope and biner as quick as i can sling a branch we got it down to just under one second the last time we had this argument on a training course we ran.

 

many slings are designed & tested to be loaded dynamically un-like allot (nope allmost all) arb rigging lines, the reason we dont use slings for snatching is not the slings it's the conector. Also biners should be held captive to krabs when rigging to prevent side loading. Yes slings nearly half their stregth when chokered but so does a rope when you half & RB it to a log: ECRDPUA anyone? RR668 for short

 

I didn't post to start an argument, there are benifits to tieing strait on but as i assume most people on AT are comercial tree surgeons i assumed that productivity and Safety would be the top of their agenda and replied from that angle.

 

It also bugs me that people seem to make flipant speculatory acusations/remarks etc about things that are either not known or are known & they simply havent bothered to look it up, Someone very prominant in our industry for whom i have the up-most respect once said to me as i told him i beleived that much research which concerns our climbing & rigging practices is not readily available.... "how old are you 24?" "nope i'm 22" "FFS listen to your-self! how is it that you know all this stuff?!, where and how did you find it all out? seek and you shall find"

 

Dont take my work for it, get out there, read, talk, test, examine, set out a few £100-£1000 and get on some test rigs after reading all that i could that's how i've answered allot of my un-answered questions sometimes it's the only way. I don't mean to go on, peace out

Edited November 15, 2012 by skip
too many spelling mistake, even for me!

[MOG]

i done my research by doing it on the job. now that is fact and whats even better is that i get paid for it, how about that:)

 

i am sure you didnt answered any of my questions there. i wasn't saying i half hitch and then bineer either.i think you completely missed the points i was making. some of your points just went against each other?

 

(Yes slings nearly half their stregth when chokered but so does a rope when you half & RB it to a log) (Also biners should be held captive to krabs) eh??

 

by the sounds of it, your system works for you and mine works for me. also productively and safety is very important to me. so far i have had great feedback and productively. My point was of adding up each thing and thinking more inparts of systems. so i leave it like that, happy rigging. i am glad we had this discuss but i think we are completely missing each other and its not going anywhere.

 

Mog

[Stephen Blair]

Can't do knots. Slings and krabs for me.

[Mark Bolam]

Do you have slip-on boots?

 

[Adam Bourne]

Do you have slip-on boots?

 

 

 

I heard Velcro

 

 

 

As for the thread, I'm not going to get into all the bollox about what's better and what's not, it's all about getting the job done and done safe, when it comes to rigging I don't cut corners, so using slings to speed the process up is more logic than anything else....after all slow is smooth smooth is fast!

As long as your working within all your equipments safe working load limits then I don't see why your all debating it?

Slings for limbs, hitches for timber for me, everyone has there way, and if its safe then fair do's......

 

The only knots I use in rigging is a figure 8 stopper and sometimes a bowline and or running bowline..... Hitches no glitches IME

[Pete Mctree]

If you don't have a spliced eye your knot attaching the krab will reduce strength by a half.

 

Either way do your maths & it's all good

[daltontrees]

Slings are the only way! Bin them as soon as they start to look distressed, otherwise they are confidence-inspiring, fast, easy to choker and have never let us down. Our main lowering rope has a figure of 8 permanently tied in it, it is the knot that loses least rope strength, to my knowledge. Linked to sling by a steel screwgate krab. Dynamic loading can almost always be catered for in the capstan.

Nearly broke a lowering rope once with about 300k of chestnut I tipped off, but it held. I just had to change underpants and cut the figure of 8 off and tie a new one. Sling and krab were fine.

[MOG]

We do lots of crane fellings, i was just thinking the other day hmmmm this crane hook is also choked? exactly like i do with my Bineers. Oh that piece was 3tons. hook was obviously fine and i pretty sure it rated lower than my 65kn bineer. i realise it static loading but just another thought to think about.

 

Ross just broke a sling, reckons nearly new, 2.5tn, acting as rigging point and didn't like the 4inchs of free fall. maybe he can tell more......... Ay Rosco??

 

Mog