Log sales what % goes to the black economy

[Albedo]

I felled some sycamore which were a pain to get down, leaning wrong way etc.

Got em back my place cut and split it. Stacked roughly a cube on pallet and thought to myself I can't charge 60 for that.!!

I feel asthough I do that a lot in general with my work thou and that's probably why I am where I am and not on a yacht somewhere!!

 

That's what I think when I look at a cube of wood:001_smile:

[Albedo]

I felled some sycamore which were a pain to get down, leaning wrong way etc.

Got em back my place cut and split it. Stacked roughly a cube on pallet and thought to myself I can't charge 60 for that.!!

I feel asthough I do that a lot in general with my work thou and that's probably why I am where I am and not on a yacht somewhere!!

 

That's what I think when I look at a cube of wood:001_smile:

[ThrustSSC]

Hmmmm... an interesting thread this, and good to be on a forum where folks are disagreeing sensibly instead of the usual mud-slinging I see elsewhere. A very pleasant change.

 

Anyway... I think this is coming down to a conversation on overheads and wanted to take a moment to think about those - and happy to share the results.

 

Just what does a minimum-overheads wood business look like? I think mine is pretty close.

 

I guess it uses land you already own but which is otherwise unproductive and therefore no rental cost (true in my case).

 

I use a chainsaw and axe - so let's say £1000 or equipment depreciated to zero over 5 years at £200/ann. I do about 50 tons a year - 100 cubes - so that's £2 a cube.

 

I use £30 of bar oil, a chain at £45, half a bar at £50, a sprocket at £50 and 50 litres of petrol at £75. So £250 in consumables, or £2.50 a cube.

 

My 100 pallets last 10 years at £3 each, my 100 bags last 5 at £5 each. So £1.30 a cube.

 

That's £5.80 a cube so far. Hardwood cord is £52 a ton where I live, so £26 a cube. £31.80 a cube so far.

 

My trailer will give me 10 years, cost £1000 second-hand after add-ons like spare wheel and wheel clamp, and will probably cost me £1000 in maintenance bits over that time (e.g. replacement floor, brake pads, lights). So £200/ann, or £2 a cube. £33.80 so far.

 

Assume 20 miles per cube for delivery, 50p a mile running cost for the wife's Defender, £10 a cube.

 

I make that £43.80 in costs. The rest is pay for my time. £56.20 for 2 hours of work when all is told.

 

Anyone want to offer a comparison? Or a critique of the above numbers?

[ThrustSSC]

Hmmmm... an interesting thread this, and good to be on a forum where folks are disagreeing sensibly instead of the usual mud-slinging I see elsewhere. A very pleasant change.

 

Anyway... I think this is coming down to a conversation on overheads and wanted to take a moment to think about those - and happy to share the results.

 

Just what does a minimum-overheads wood business look like? I think mine is pretty close.

 

I guess it uses land you already own but which is otherwise unproductive and therefore no rental cost (true in my case).

 

I use a chainsaw and axe - so let's say £1000 or equipment depreciated to zero over 5 years at £200/ann. I do about 50 tons a year - 100 cubes - so that's £2 a cube.

 

I use £30 of bar oil, a chain at £45, half a bar at £50, a sprocket at £50 and 50 litres of petrol at £75. So £250 in consumables, or £2.50 a cube.

 

My 100 pallets last 10 years at £3 each, my 100 bags last 5 at £5 each. So £1.30 a cube.

 

That's £5.80 a cube so far. Hardwood cord is £52 a ton where I live, so £26 a cube. £31.80 a cube so far.

 

My trailer will give me 10 years, cost £1000 second-hand after add-ons like spare wheel and wheel clamp, and will probably cost me £1000 in maintenance bits over that time (e.g. replacement floor, brake pads, lights). So £200/ann, or £2 a cube. £33.80 so far.

 

Assume 20 miles per cube for delivery, 50p a mile running cost for the wife's Defender, £10 a cube.

 

I make that £43.80 in costs. The rest is pay for my time. £56.20 for 2 hours of work when all is told.

 

Anyone want to offer a comparison? Or a critique of the above numbers?

[difflock]

(i) GensetSteve, thank you for your comment re the lighting tower, would not have considered that otherwise.

Certainly worth considering as an affordable option.

(ii) SSC (as above) I would cost operations exactly as you do, in principle leastwise, everything in life must be paid for incl experience.

(iii) As a non arborculturist I do ponder some of the posts I come across on here, when as a thrifty Scots bred small farmers Son I tend to think that most of ye on here are very fond of expensive "toys" and a reasonably profligate beer swilling lifestyle, apparently:lol:.

(iv) I do also ponder why some think they can run a business/make a living when they cannot even do basic simple sums, it does take more than the capacity for hard physical work unfortunately, to be successful.

(v) Re the above I am also astounded at how unnecessarily physically hard some of you choose to work, lifting logs off the ground, hand splitting, multiple manually handling etc etc, I know hard work was never easy, plus I knackered my back doing fool things when younger, but unless a lot of actual artistnal skill is involved any cost effective production process must now be mechanised, not necessarily with shiney new kit though.

This why I am a "wage slave", regarding my very limited firewood non-business a a hobby, which just might morph into a retirment business.

cheers

Marcus

[difflock]

(i) GensetSteve, thank you for your comment re the lighting tower, would not have considered that otherwise.

Certainly worth considering as an affordable option.

(ii) SSC (as above) I would cost operations exactly as you do, in principle leastwise, everything in life must be paid for incl experience.

(iii) As a non arborculturist I do ponder some of the posts I come across on here, when as a thrifty Scots bred small farmers Son I tend to think that most of ye on here are very fond of expensive "toys" and a reasonably profligate beer swilling lifestyle, apparently:lol:.

(iv) I do also ponder why some think they can run a business/make a living when they cannot even do basic simple sums, it does take more than the capacity for hard physical work unfortunately, to be successful.

(v) Re the above I am also astounded at how unnecessarily physically hard some of you choose to work, lifting logs off the ground, hand splitting, multiple manually handling etc etc, I know hard work was never easy, plus I knackered my back doing fool things when younger, but unless a lot of actual artistnal skill is involved any cost effective production process must now be mechanised, not necessarily with shiney new kit though.

This why I am a "wage slave", regarding my very limited firewood non-business a a hobby, which just might morph into a retirment business.

cheers

Marcus

[hardtop110]

Thrust - what about the following:

Opportunity cost of the land - could you sell it or rent it out to anyone else?

Insurance

Your time to deliver

Admin - invoices, banking, answering the phone

 

£56.20 for 2 hours of work when all is told

 

If you can maintain that rate for 35 hours a week you are looking at gross pay of nearly a grand - not a bad wage really. Obviously you would need to be able to shift nearly 800 cube a year (based on 45 working weeks) to maintain that.

But is £100 a cube realistic for those sorts of volumes?

[hardtop110]

Thrust - what about the following:

Opportunity cost of the land - could you sell it or rent it out to anyone else?

Insurance

Your time to deliver

Admin - invoices, banking, answering the phone

 

£56.20 for 2 hours of work when all is told

 

If you can maintain that rate for 35 hours a week you are looking at gross pay of nearly a grand - not a bad wage really. Obviously you would need to be able to shift nearly 800 cube a year (based on 45 working weeks) to maintain that.

But is £100 a cube realistic for those sorts of volumes?

[Albedo]

No I dont remember the stacked cube thread or falling out. If you enjoy producing logs and its not your main income no problem. Which ever way you do logs it should be possible to earn a living wage considering the demand for them. I talk to most of the people selling logs in our local area and have no problem with competition just not keen on subsidising it.

 

People can be poor for different reasons. They may be on benefits, or on a low wage or both. I don’t begrudge them making a bit on the side. It could be a decent school uniform for the kids or a bit of beer money ….whatever.

 

I have no problem with subsidising the above type scenario. The thing I don’t like subsidizing is all the public sector workers who blagged early retirement on good pension deals. That gets my goat.

[Albedo]

No I dont remember the stacked cube thread or falling out. If you enjoy producing logs and its not your main income no problem. Which ever way you do logs it should be possible to earn a living wage considering the demand for them. I talk to most of the people selling logs in our local area and have no problem with competition just not keen on subsidising it.

 

People can be poor for different reasons. They may be on benefits, or on a low wage or both. I don’t begrudge them making a bit on the side. It could be a decent school uniform for the kids or a bit of beer money ….whatever.

 

I have no problem with subsidising the above type scenario. The thing I don’t like subsidizing is all the public sector workers who blagged early retirement on good pension deals. That gets my goat.