Under payed?

[arbogrunt]

yes, the money is crap. I see it from both sides as I am an employer and an employee (albeit a freelance one). The problem is the cost of living has rocketed and we are earning wages that are low because there are too many of us chasing the same work...'cor blimey, don't you know theres a recession on?'...its largely a self inflicted injury..the answer is...become a plumber or a sparks

[Ginja]

I employ someone now so I regularly go without pay myself. I started this business for a loving memory, I continued it purely for love of the job, and I go without pay to see my small struggling firm grow into a success because I love it. If I was greedy I'd still be in the target driven sales job I left for this. Not all employers are the same, some are heartless B@$t***s and some are angels, some are normal like me. But that is the same of any industry in any country.

 

If a company makes good profits it will pay better wages - so work hard and be proactive within your employment and you should receive rewards. If you want to just take take take then the company will have nothing left to sustain you in leaner times. A company is the sum of its parts, employees are a part that greatly effect productivity and therefore profitability. As a company all parts should work equally to the same goals to achieve the level of reward they desire. This is a simple strategy employed by some of the most successful companies in the world. The flip side is that employers must look after those assets that are productive and profitable, your best chipper gets oil changes and new knives, so should your lads and lasses be rewarded for their achievements - or one day they may just stop working so hard for you...just like ill treated kit!

 

The British are famous for being reserved, it is a very British defence mechanism that has been successful on many occasions, not so successful on others. For a small group of islands we do ok. Maybe this reserved approach is reflected in our pay rates, is it possibly that we don't throw money around because we simply can't afford to at the moment and we are reserving large pay increases for better times? Or is it that the £9/hr lads aren't showing the devotion to the company to make an employer feel safe in increasing their pay rate, have they not proved their worth as yet? No offence peeps but I had to highlight my achievements and convince my employers I was worth a pay increase in my previous profession, why should this job be any different. Numerous employers on this thread have stated they happily pay employees a good wage that repeatedly show their worth. I'm not saying you're not worth it, I'm just saying maybe you're not proving your worth to your employer. (cue the flicking of pony tails or stroking of receding hairlines of employed arbs coupled with utterances of "because I'm worth it" in a Geordie accent)

 

The industry does desperately need some sort of regulation, but this is very 'chicken and the egg'. Many companies cannot afford the costs that come with increased regulation even though they may be professional outfits. So the increase in the publics perception of our works value would have to increase proportionately to the increased regulation costs. Done wrong, this kind of manoeuvre may lead to the loss of jobs and small companies. Be careful what you wish for.

 

I seem to be rambling.

[JimM]

IMO it comes down to there's no industry standard that the public are aware of....

 

 

If there were and the public were informed they'd be a bigger lean towards using qualified people.... as it is there are too many unqualified uninsured people doing the work and this keeps prices low.

 

 

When this industry can pull together under one unified clear standard that the man on the street has heard of then prices would be higher.

 

To me this is the best post of the thread. The public understand Corgi for gas heating engineers. They understand getting a qualified plumber or electrician. They don't get a qualified tree surgeon/chainsaw operator because there is no legislation or recognised body that prevents the unqualified/uninsured from doing the work. Or stops the DIY stores from selling chainsaws to those looking for a Darwin award.

How many forestry operation firms take on blokes with a B&Q special and no quals?

Until you push that level of expectation into the tree-surgery world and get it policed to remove the "have a go Harrys" nothing will change.

So the question becomes; who lobbies for change in the industry? The Arb Association?

[Ginja]

To me this is the best post of the thread. The public understand Corgi for gas heating engineers. They understand getting a qualified plumber or electrician. They don't get a qualified tree surgeon/chainsaw operator because there is no legislation or recognised body that prevents the unqualified/uninsured from doing the work. Or stops the DIY stores from selling chainsaws to those looking for a Darwin award.

How many forestry operation firms take on blokes with a B&Q special and no quals?

Until you push that level of expectation into the tree-surgery world and get it policed to remove the "have a go Harrys" nothing will change.

So the question becomes; who lobbies for change in the industry? The Arb Association?

 

Same question different day. The aa, isa, chartered foresters, etc etc. wouldn't the industry be better with a unified regulatory body? Does the divide keep all the associations on their toes? Are arbs ever going to see an answer to this quandary? Probably, but I might be dead by then!

[Johny Walker]

I employ someone now so I regularly go without pay myself. I started this business for a loving memory, I continued it purely for love of the job, and I go without pay to see my small struggling firm grow into a success because I love it. If I was greedy I'd still be in the target driven sales job I left for this. Not all employers are the same, some are heartless B@***s and some are angels, some are normal like me. But that is the same of any industry in any country.

 

If a company makes good profits it will pay better wages - so work hard and be proactive within your employment and you should receive rewards. If you want to just take take take then the company will have nothing left to sustain you in leaner times. A company is the sum of its parts, employees are a part that greatly effect productivity and therefore profitability. As a company all parts should work equally to the same goals to achieve the level of reward they desire. This is a simple strategy employed by some of the most successful companies in the world. The flip side is that employers must look after those assets that are productive and profitable, your best chipper gets oil changes and new knives, so should your lads and lasses be rewarded for their achievements - or one day they may just stop working so hard for you...just like ill treated kit!

 

The British are famous for being reserved, it is a very British defence mechanism that has been successful on many occasions, not so successful on others. For a small group of islands we do ok. Maybe this reserved approach is reflected in our pay rates, is it possibly that we don't throw money around because we simply can't afford to at the moment and we are reserving large pay increases for better times? Or is it that the £9/hr lads aren't showing the devotion to the company to make an employer feel safe in increasing their pay rate, have they not proved their worth as yet? No offence peeps but I had to highlight my achievements and convince my employers I was worth a pay increase in my previous profession, why should this job be any different. Numerous employers on this thread have stated they happily pay employees a good wage that repeatedly show their worth. I'm not saying you're not worth it, I'm just saying maybe you're not proving your worth to your employer. (cue the flicking of pony tails or stroking of receding hairlines of employed arbs coupled with utterances of "because I'm worth it" in a Geordie accent)

 

The industry does desperately need some sort of regulation, but this is very 'chicken and the egg'. Many companies cannot afford the costs that come with increased regulation even though they may be professional outfits. So the increase in the publics perception of our works value would have to increase proportionately to the increased regulation costs. Done wrong, this kind of manoeuvre may lead to the loss of jobs and small companies. Be careful what you wish for.

 

I seem to be rambling.

 

can folk refrain from doing long posts AFTER the watershed please

[mistahbenn]

Allow me slightly adjust my statement then Huck, the majority of climbers are not highly skilled, some are skilful, some are semi skilled and many are hardly skilled at all. I hold two or three climbers that I know personally and have worked with in the skilful category, most I know are semi skilled and one or two I would not class as skilled at all. But they are all climbers. So in my statement I feel justified in my opinion.

 

So please explain these categories more.

[skyhuck]

We will never be regulated!!!!

 

It will not happen!!!

 

People can bleat on about it till the cows come home, but its not going to happen.

 

Remember that street that was blown up, killing a baby and injuring others, thats what happens when gas goes wrong, hardly comparable with a poorly pruned tree.

 

Mechanics are not regulated, they can rebuild the brakes on a car or truck that vehicle then disappears down the road, if that goes wrong dozens could be killed.

 

The main person we put at risk from poor practice is ourselves, there are any number of other activities that put other people at risk that would need regulating before ours came anywhere near the radar of the powers that be, IMO.

[Andy Collins]

Hmmmm this is not really ever going to go anywhere. My son is an apprentice mechanic with Honda. He trained for two years at college to IMI standards, not enough for Honda. He is currently on a 3 yr apprenticeship, to qualify to their standard as a basic mechanic, then he does another year (if he wants) to be a Diagnostic Technician, then he can do another year to become a Master Technician. The current rate for a Master Tech is I believe £16 p/hr, that will take him 7 years training to attain, he could have skipped the IMI 2 yr course, but it stood in good stead. A climber can train on a 10 week course and is ticketed to work. I'm not saying a top of his game, skilled climber, but a climber nonetheless, so £9 p/hr is about right in the employed status.

[Ginja]

can folk refrain from doing long posts AFTER the watershed please

 

First time I write something in ages and someone rolls their eyes. Figure my points are valid, unlike a lot of the ones on here. If you don't like it don't read it.

 

But then again I wont bother in future, maybe the industry would be better off without deep thinkers, eh.

[Andy Collins]

Ignore johnny, he's just johnny