should he stay or should he go.....(Clarkson)

[Mark James]

Clarkson should be the PM

 

 

Sent from my aye phone using Tapatalk

[skyhuck]

Really? So if the PS has been such a fantastic and cushy number all these years, so easy to get in to, so little to do, such fantastic pay, brilliant benefits etc. why aren't you in it?

 

Alec

 

Because working around idle people makes me sick to my stomach, so I prefer to run my own firm.

[Tom D]

My best man had a job with the council for a while, he was a good employee, turned up early and worked hard all day, he'd leave when his work was finished. after a couple of weeks one of the old hands took him to one side and said" this is the council son, we dinnae work too hard here" he was expected to slow down as he was showing everyone else up. the other stories he tells about that place are truly shocking.

[agg221]

Alec

1. You are not taking into account TLR, or 'management' roles, which all teachers are encouraged to take on once, if not before, they reach their pay ceiling. There are all manner of ways of earning this, HOD, HOY, pastoral, etc etc.

 

I'm well aware of TLRs. I'm well aware of the reality of how available they are when your school is broke, and in a county that is doing well, so doesn't get national average budget. I'm aware of 'Years' being turned into 'Houses' because there's a HOY role but not an HOH role, so all the HOYs lose their managment role and go back to classroom teachers, but still do the same job. I'm well aware of starting in a school, and gaining experience, and taking on more responsibility, and being paid less. I know quite a few people in this position. I'm well aware of redundancies three years in a row in a school, which has reduced its headcount by 20%, to pay to mend the roof. I'm not complaining, merely observing.

 

2. I am a bad example. I work in the constructin industry. Some of my work is for the local authority, most for private sector. Public sector work has so many flaws I can't even begin to go into them here. I don't have a pension [i can't afford the contributions, I pay life insurance instead]. The only changes to my pay packet in the last 3 years have been a10% pay cut and losing my company car. I don't often take lunch, if I do it might be a sandwich at my desk and occasionally I'll pop home for half an hour. I work the hours which need to be worked to make sure the job gets done and the company makes enough money to keep me employed. Last night I was working until midnight to turn out some as built drawings to save us £400.

Mostly, I do whatever is necessary to survive and give my wife and children a stable life, and think myself bloody lucky to have a job at all. I am currently working 6 days a week, something which is VERY common in the private sector, while 5 days is an achievement in my experience of the public sector....

I don't think we are on the breadline, however when I compare our situation, both currently and long term, with friends who work for the state, actually, we pretty well are on the breadline.

 

For reference, I'm in the private sector. I have the odd situation of an ongoing final salary pension scheme, via massive corporate contributions for a bizzare series of tax reasons; my contribution to it is also significant, but may well go down eventually. Due to hereditary life expectancy, I don't anticipate retiring, but it will pay a good income to my wife. I gave up lunch breaks longer ago than I can remember and got home early today, before 7 - youngest daughter goes to bed at 7 and I try to see her to say goodnight. My wife beat me home by half an hour, which is reasonable as she had left half an hour before me, and had to pick up the kids on the way home. I haven't had to start again tonight as I got ahead of things on a deadline today. My wife is still working and will stop when she goes to bed at midnight. She will be doing lesson planning on Saturday and Sunday while the kids have their naps. I will be writing collaborative funding proposals to the EU for submission on Tuesday, interspersed with building our extension, as it's the only way we'll afford to make the house big enough for the children to each have their own rooms. I wouldn't say either of us are slacking - if anyone thinks differently that's their business!

I get to compare public and private sector pay changes directly. We've both been working ~15yrs. Private sector, I've had pay rises of >5% in good times, 0% in bad times. Teaching, biggest rise I've seen my wife get was 3%, now 3yr pay freeze, followed by 2yrs at 1%. If I take the best equivalent entry grade people, just based on service type rises, then in my industry it will be +150% overall. In teaching it will be +80%.

 

3. I'm not saying that many teachers, nurses, bin men etc don't do an absolutely wonderful job, nor am I saying that they are not worth what they're paid. What I'm saying is we're all broke. facts and figures and reasons and blame aside, what's done is done and we're in the situation we're in and that's that, make peace with it.

The huge public sector must shoulder some responsibility for this situation and accept that they can't hide behind their unions forever demanding the impossible. They need to roll up their sleeves alongside those of us who don't have a union to fight our corner, those of us who can improve our lot only by working harder for it, and help us make the country profitable again.

They need to stop making it 'them and us' because, and I can only speak for myself here, it makes me resent them massively....

 

I don't feel I'm getting good value. And you know what they say.... the customer is always right....

 

Threads like this start with 'them and us'. The press start with 'them and us'. Only those of us who live 'both of us together' are ever going to grasp that it's not all down to the other camp. There are pros and cons - if you work more hours in an hourly paid job, you get paid more. If you work harder to keep a company going in bad times, you may well be recognised and rewarded for your contribution in better times. If you are in a public sector role, you won't, and you will still be resented.

 

If you take your argument about the customer being right to its logical conclusion, perhaps the teachers, nurses, binmen etc. should all leave if they don't like it. Trouble is, nobody would actually like it if they did.

 

Alec

[MATTMOSS]

Because working around idle people makes me sick to my stomach, so I prefer to run my own firm.

 

Thats a bit harsh! what did i say about dont tar everyone with the same brush!! how do you know what other people do at work? your just jumpin on the band wagon. I have to work seven days to pay my mortgage like any other man. You work for yourself because you choose to, more money your own boss good for you.

[skyhuck]

Thats a bit harsh! what did i say about dont tar everyone with the same brush!! how do you know what other people do at work? your just jumpin on the band wagon. I have to work seven days to pay my mortgage like any other man. You work for yourself because you choose to, more money your own boss good for you.

 

I subbed to large Co's and councils, I hated the attitude of the staff, they just wanted to do as little as they could get away with and moan about the management, I HATED it.

 

I've spent plenty of time in hospitals I am amazed at how much time the staff spend chatting and the fatness of many PS works say a lot, its not possible to be that fat and work hard, IMO.

 

Of course there are exceptions and some work very hard, but there are too many of the other sort and they would drive me bonker!!

Edited December 1, 2011 by skyhuck

[MATTMOSS]

ha ha ha

[MATTMOSS]

I cant deny there are some people like that and some peoples attitudes to work are poor. But im not one of them! I enjoy work, take pride in my work, i work hard for the council and in my own time and I try to influence the people i work with.

[Sam Thompson]

I cant deny there are some people like that and some peoples attitudes to work are poor. But im not one of them! I enjoy work, take pride in my work, i work hard for the council and in my own time and I try to influence the people i work with.

 

The very fact you are on here sets you apart from most council workers IMO

[WorcsWuss]

Alec, we have both in our house as well, and I have worked as a contractor for the school my wife was working at [till we had another child] both directly for the school and through the LA, so I feel qualified to compare what I know of our own situations.

The rewards in public sector employment are there, they're just different.... family hours, job sharing, a pension for everyone, but above all, job security.

I work on the HOPE that I'll get recognised, and if I don't, I work a bit harder.... If I get rewarded it will likely be a lump sum payment, but it won't have any greater worth than the perks you receive over time [and irrespective of performance] working in the public sector.

I am salaried, I get what I get no matter how many hours I work [but believe me, I don't get to work less!] I have as much opportunity to increase my earnings as anyone in the public sector.

It is those who have gone on strike demanding something which is not economically viable which has made a them and us situation. Because they have made themselves out to be more valuable than those of us who don't work in the public sector, those of us who suffer job losses, pay cuts, short hours....

 

 

And I'm not sure what type of school you refer to which had to lay of staff to repair the roof. If it was a state run school I can state categorically that would not have happened, the LA has a responsibility to maintain the envelope, sanitary facilities and mechanical and electrical installations in a school..... bills for those items do not come out of devolved capital, they're covered under the service level agreement.