Nptc

[Pete Mctree]

Boycott nptc I say! huge scam imo, £750 a course,I think not!

 

So no NPTC, then who do you go to as an employer, with a duty of care to train and certify your staff? Or do you just pass them a saw and hope for the best? What if you are a contractor who has to demonstate his competence before he commences work?

 

As for the money, you will find that a small portion goes to NPTC...........

[Leyburn Lad]

Watching AxeMen on the telly has convinced me how good our system is.

If people (like the tree officer Rupe mentions) choose to be pig headed and ignorant, and not apply common sense, its not the fault of the system.

 

I would like to see a Combined 38 - 39 - 40 - 41 course with single assesment.

 

:congrats:

 

a very senisible option all 4 disciplines together over say 10 days, but would the NPTC be happy with this I doubt it after all they could'nt screw you for the 4 weeks it usally takes:mad1:

[bob]

 

a very senisible option all 4 disciplines together over say 10 days, but would the NPTC be happy with this I doubt it after all they could'nt screw you for the 4 weeks it usally takes:mad1:

 

so let me get this right in 10 days you could train 4 new climbers to climb trees use chainsaws prune trees and use lowering devices and ropes and go straight out into the industry as fully qualified climber

you must be a really good instructor

[Arbocop]

Hi Ian et al hope we are all ok

 

ian to answer your question what the law says is no matter what you do you need to be competen to do it by a mix of trainining information instruction and supervison, for our industry guidance is given in AFAG 805 as to the HSE favoured way of proving competence, now dont forget there are many ways to do that but the hse in the matetr of arb reccomend LANTRA-AWARDS & NPTC for certain stuff.

 

in short the bear minimum they would look for in a tree surgoun would be CS30/30/38/39 but dont forget, you need to be competent in what you do so think of the limitation of these awards. hear at BTS traing these are run very regually on lantra regestered cources with nptc assessment.

 

what is interesting and said abouve, is no we cant teach you years of experiance in a few days, but we can certainly help you not make the same mistakes we did!! also dont forget if you do a lantra awards regestered cource you get a recognised cert of training that allows you to work under the supervision of a qualified person for up to 6 months befor taking your test, give you time to consolidate what you have learn, mind you not many people take that option all in a hurry to get the ticket!!

 

so what does cs 39 allow you to do?? a saw, tophandeled or rear handeled with a bar max of 15" in a tree and do a range of 5 cuts to a correct standard, sink step and pruning hand held and free fall.

 

so well if you whanted to you could take a tree to peices with that as long as you did not use rigging or a bigger saw than 15 inch in the tree, but dont forget just as u have a tiket does not make u proficent, just competent in the task assessed, and that is at a basic minimum standard.

 

as for the chap refused permission to fell the tree it sounds like a bonkers state of affairs, enforced by some one scared of thir own shadow however there may be a reasnoble reason.

 

when you say pole felling cs 43 i think youi may mean cs44 felling standing stems, this award was introduced specifically for arbs who take a tree to bits then whant to fell a stem any size, and with a big saw too if desired, to remove the need for arbs to do cs32,33 med and large tree felling. now if your mate has his 41 rigging he must have his 30,31,38,39 too (or older equivilants), and if the tree were bigger at felling height than 15" the ticket would not cover him!!! thats not so say he is not competent, just his ticket would not cover him, and that may be the reason he was told not to fell the tree, prehaps a little over aplication ?? but that may be the rason.

 

finally as has been pointed out above you need 39 to do 40 and 41 so there is another reason.

 

your a long way away from us but if you find your self in essex/suffolk area come by BTS/trees unlimited and say hi.

 

to all i hope that helps, if you whany moor info just ask i can go on for ages hehehe part of the advantage of being on several groups and comitees that try to drive these things in the right way

 

cheers all

 

arbocop

[ecolojim]

you just mentioned something there that Id quite like cleared up once and for all.

 

CS31, to fell and process (or whatever the wording) 'small trees'.... and then some subtext about trees less than or up to diameter of the guide bar.

 

then 32 'medium trees' up to 2x guide bar length or whatever,

 

then 33 is up to 3x or something.

 

 

now... Ive always understood that the small, medium, large had little consequence, It was merely a way of classifying a set of techniques, and as such a 3 1/2 foot diameter tree could be felled by an operative with CS31 so long as he used a saw with bar length at least 3 1/2 foot, as he would be using one of the basic techniques. and so on and so forth with the other certifications. This would make a lot of sense.

 

I have certainly felled trees a lot larger than 15 inches using those basic cuts and larger saws, and find the process little different.

 

I was also under the impression that the whole 15 inch basis was for no other reason than 15inch being a bar size taken by a lot of saws, and availability of training and assessment trees for CS32 and 33 if the bar size were larger, would be next to none, and a waste of fantastic trees. Again, pointing toward 'size' being immaterial, and 'technique' being the item actually being classified.

 

clarification would be appreciated

 

Jim

[Ian Leach]

Arbocop thanks for the info things are more clearer now.

 

 

Pete McSheffery: I've heard that too,the collages charge the majority of the money for what? i don't know. When i done my felling course the instructor was on about it saying it getting hard to make money.

[ecolojim]

Boycott nptc I say! huge scam imo, £750 a course,I think not!

 

How much?!

 

my cs38 was 520-ish, and Ive paid myself through all my courses to date, so I applied to 'train to gain' who funded half the cost, so a cost of £260 to myself.

 

not to mention, it took me a week to do my 38, because it took me a week. no way I would do all those other tickets over 10 days. I wouldnt have even managed a combined cs38 and 39

[skyhuck]

Is it no longer possible to just get assessed?

[bob]

yes you can just go for your assessment

the assessor should not be aware of what or with who if any training has taken place unless the candidate mentions it

the lads i work with have all got 30 31 32 38 39 40 41 as a minimum and have never been on a training course

[Big 'Ammer]

Just to throw a fly in the ointment, hypothetically....

 

when you say pole felling cs 43 i think youi may mean cs44 felling standing stems, this award was introduced specifically for arbs who take a tree to bits then whant to fell a stem any size, and with a big saw too if desired, to remove the need for arbs to do cs32,33 med and large tree felling. now if your mate has his 41 rigging he must have his 30,31,38,39 too (or older equivilants), and if the tree were bigger at felling height than 15" the ticket would not cover him!!! thats not so say he is not competent, just his ticket would not cover him, and that may be the reason he was told not to fell the tree, prehaps a little over aplication ?? but that may be the rason.

 

Lets say I want to stand on the ground and fell a large stem, with one limb attached to it, by removing it with a crane.

 

For a particular situation, this is agreed to be the best, simplist and safest way to carry out the job.

 

Do I need 41, as I am dismantling with rigging, albeit not from a rope and harness, as I am stood on the ground?

 

Do I need 44 felling a standing stem? - But is it a standing stem? Its more than that, as it has a limb attached still.

 

Do I need 33, felling large trees? - But I'm not felling it, I'm lifting it.

 

A forester with 33 but no dismantling ticket can't do it then!

 

A tree surgeon with 41 and 44 can't do it, as its still got a limb attached and is therefore not a standing pole!

 

Just a bit of fun! Discuss.

 

What's anyone think?

 

For the record, I have 41 and 33 and so felt I was appropriatly qualified in the eyes of the law!