prices.

[gensetsteve]

I sell at £120/cube for hardwood logs but that price does include 5% VAT and £30 to £40 quid for the haulier. I guess then you get into a collect versus delivered price. I dont think enough people add value for the time and cost of delivery. Even Tesco charge £5 for deliveries.

 

If you look at my logs 35% is the wood cost (inlcuding bag and pallet), 5% is for the VAT man, 30% for the delivery man which leaves me 30% for my labour, equipment, maintenance, diesel and storage costs. I don't consider that being remotely greedy.

 

If my cord wood goes up 25% in price next year so will my wood price. I'll gear production to demand and if it drops it drops, theres no point in working for nothing.

 

Its good to hear someone getting a good and fully justified price for their hard work. Do you deliver tipped loads for this or nets and bulk bags. I value the cost of delivery especially when vehicles cost 20k and diesel £1.30 a litre. We offer free delivery because if we charge delivery the customer will have to pay20% vat on it. But there is only so far you can deliver logs free. Problem is I have now is every year I double the amount of cord I buy but if the cost goes up that much how confident will i be customers will buy it and will we have a cold winter next year. With a mild winter next year I can see alot of people catching a cold.

[b101uk]

It would make no difference if it was 30p a litre you have not had it delivered yet. i would have a back up plan let us know if you get some on the 5th. Last January customers told me they were paying £400 to have an emergency top up of 200 litres. Even customers on a top up plan were hung out to dry.

 

 

it wont be a problem as compared to other places we hardly had any snow last time so deliveries were hardly affected, ok there is still snow between now and 5th Jan but its paid for and i could have had it on the 23rd Dec but i picked the 5th Jan because there is no hurry as there is still ~400L in the tank, if we have deep snow then its still no problem because I can get an IBC/45 gal barrels and can go to there depot and collect it myself as I use to for ULS gas oil when I used it >2 years ago or as I did when clearing snow near there depot I would use the ULS gas oil pump to fill the mog directly

 

As we have used the same oil supplier for >20 years and don’t chop and change like a lot of people do over saving <0.5p/L you generally get a better service than a new customer or one that chops and changes.

[b101uk]

What a lot of you are failing to grasp is its you and your actions that are causing the biggest rise in price, because you are trying to supply more firewood than you can get hold of suitable out of spec timber locally.

 

Fire wood should be the wood that is “waste” wood not in spec for other markets thus is by-product which naturally makes it harder to process, if you buy wood that’s really destined for other markets simply because its easer to process then your action of buying it at much higher cost is causing the price rise.

 

If you want to use “green energy” or “renewables” or “carbon neutral” facades to hide behind then its about time you were outed, if your using wood that would other wise end up as preverbal “tables & chair’s” or other wooden products that stay as “wood” for years and the “off cuts” from making them end up as “woodchip” feedstock etc then its not very “green” to convert that same wood to firewood to burn instead of turning into “tables & chair’s etc” or extra trees getting converted to make up for the shortfall because lazy people want easy to process in-spec timber which funnily enough costs a lot more!

 

If your tramping in-spec timber suitable for other markets but its destined to you for firewood from half way across the country rather than using just what you get locally then that also isn’t very “green” or “carbon neutral” etc given timber that stays as a high percentage of timber in an end product like preverbal “tables & chair’s” etc it can travel a lot further staying “green” or “carbon neutral” simply because its not being burnt!

 

Logs are only “green energy” or “renewables” or “carbon neutral” if the wood comes from locally and its only sold/moved locally, logs from arb arisings are also ok and lend then selves to this given its general local nature and semi coincidental transport and general age of tree/s.

 

As for shipping out logs in bags that you don’t retain then that also adds to cost and a larger less green carbon footprint.

[muldonach]

FSC (FSC UK - Forest Stewardship Council) is the Forestry Stewardship Council

 

When timber is sold as FSC Certified it means it has been harvested from sustainable, well managed forests and woodlands.

 

It means all the people involved with the woodland or forest are suitably qualified, all the timber is harvested under an environmental policy to avoid pollution and contamination to water courses, everything from the land owner to the management and the contractor is audited.

It also ensures a chain of custody right through from planting to harvesting, sale and transport.

 

We still deal with non-FSC from time to time but the emphasis is becoming more and more towards sustainable resources which are certified.

 

It means that the woodland owner has paid the subscription.

 

Cheers

mac

[baz]

Do you deliver tipped loads for this or nets and bulk bags. I value the cost of delivery especially when vehicles cost 20k and diesel £1.30 a litre. We offer free delivery because if we charge delivery the customer will have to pay20% vat on it. But there is only so far you can deliver logs free. Problem is I have now is every year I double the amount of cord I buy but if the cost goes up that much how confident will i be customers will buy it and will we have a cold winter next year. With a mild winter next year I can see alot of people catching a cold.

 

All my wood leaves in vented cube bags. I don't have any netting, kindling or chipping equipment to offer wood in other varieties. I don't charge my customers 20% vat on delivery as I offer fully inclusive pricing at 5% VAT. If I did break out carriage then I would need to charge that at the prevailing higher rate of VAT. So, just quote a delivered price that rises the further away from source and you'll be fine at the inclusive pricing.

 

Look ar your cordwood invoices from your suppliers, they should all be a fully inclusive delivered price for the wood without freight broken out. Purely so VAT is at 5%.

[gensetsteve]

What a lot of you are failing to grasp is its you and your actions that are causing the biggest rise in price, because you are trying to supply more firewood than you can get hold of suitable out of spec timber locally.

 

Fire wood should be the wood that is “waste” wood not in spec for other markets thus is by-product which naturally makes it harder to process, if you buy wood that’s really destined for other markets simply because its easer to process then your action of buying it at much higher cost is causing the price rise.

 

If you want to use “green energy” or “renewables” or “carbon neutral” facades to hide behind then its about time you were outed, if your using wood that would other wise end up as preverbal “tables & chair’s” or other wooden products that stay as “wood” for years and the “off cuts” from making them end up as “woodchip” feedstock etc then its not very “green” to convert that same wood to firewood to burn instead of turning into “tables & chair’s etc” or extra trees getting converted to make up for the shortfall because lazy people want easy to process in-spec timber which funnily enough costs a lot more!

 

If your tramping in-spec timber suitable for other markets but its destined to you for firewood from half way across the country rather than using just what you get locally then that also isn’t very “green” or “carbon neutral” etc given timber that stays as a high percentage of timber in an end product like preverbal “tables & chair’s” etc it can travel a lot further staying “green” or “carbon neutral” simply because its not being burnt!

 

Logs are only “green energy” or “renewables” or “carbon neutral” if the wood comes from locally and its only sold/moved locally, logs from arb arisings are also ok and lend then selves to this given its general local nature and semi coincidental transport and general age of tree/s.

 

As for shipping out logs in bags that you don’t retain then that also adds to cost and a larger less green carbon footprint.

 

We use beech which comes from 4 miles away. Six years ago it would have gone for pulp in wales to make paper but when they shut that down there was no use for it. The firewood industry proved an ideal and only market for it. As for making things like table and chairs in this country now you are having a laugh. The reason cord wood has gone sky high is simply demand. If you are going to supply firewood as a commercial venture your not going to turn roots and crowns into logs and make a living, pocket money before christmas maybe.

[baz]

Fire wood should be the wood that is “waste” wood not in spec for other markets thus is by-product which naturally makes it harder to process, if you buy wood that’s really destined for other markets simply because its easer to process then your action of buying it at much higher cost is causing the price rise.

.

 

According to my bulk suppliers firewood grade cord wood is waste wood thats just too small ro be processed commercially; for boarding, furniture and the like. What else could you use 4 inch to 12 inch wood for other than firewood?

[Justme]

Look ar your cordwood invoices from your suppliers, they should all be a fully inclusive delivered price for the wood without freight broken out. Purely so VAT is at 5%.

 

 

Your suppliers should be charging you the full rate of VAT for the wood & delivery. However you can do as you are & include the delivery as an incidental at the same domestic rate of 5%. If you offered the delivery as an extra then the full rate would apply.

[Dave Martin]

If I did break out carriage then I would need to charge that at the prevailing higher rate of VAT. So, just quote a delivered price that rises the further away from source and you'll be fine at the inclusive pricing.

 

 

I am sure that if the vat man so desired he would have you on that one. I have known him point out that a free normally vatable item given away with a zero rated item eg. a free plastic toy with a zero rated magazine should incur vat at the higher rate.

[Justme]

This is what the VAT man says

 

 

2. Delivered goods

 

2.1 How do I work out the VAT treatment for delivered goods?

 

A supply of goods may involve delivery to the customer. The way any delivery charge is treated for VAT purposes depends on the circumstances in which the goods are supplied.

 

 

2.2 What if I deliver goods to my customers but make no additional charge?

 

If delivery is free, or the cost is built into the normal price, VAT is accounted for on the goods in the normal way based on the liability of the goods themselves. This applies whether or not delivery is required under the contract.

 

2.3 What if I have to deliver the goods and I make a charge for this?

 

The important test is whether delivery is included in the contract. You are making a single supply of delivered goods if, under the contract, you have to deliver the goods to a place specified by the customer. This might include the customer’s:

 

own address;

friends or relatives; or

their own customers.

The position is not affected by whether the charge you make for delivery is separately itemised or invoiced to the customer. In either case there is a single supply for which the VAT liability is based on the liability of the goods being delivered. For example, any element of the price attributed to the doorstep delivery of milk and newspapers will also be zero rated. On the other hand any element attributed to the delivery of standard rated mail order goods will be standard rated.

 

2.4 What if delivery is not required under the contract or I deliver somebody else’s goods?

 

Delivery services are normally treated as a separate supply of services only where you:

 

supply goods under a contract that does not require delivery but where, nevertheless, you agree to deliver the goods and make a separate charge; or

you provide a service of delivering somebody else’s goods (see also section 3 for direct mailing services).

In this case the liability of the delivery charge is not affected by the liability of the goods you are delivering and is normally standard rated - but see section 4 if the delivery is to, or from, a place outside the United Kingdom. For example, in distributing a publisher’s newspapers (which are zero rated) you are nevertheless making a standard rated supply of services. Similarly, if you deliver the goods by post, the supply of delivery services remains taxable even though the supply to you by the Post Office will be exempt (see paragraph 1.4).

 

 

So free (or rolled up in the price) del is fine (re 2.2)

as is

delivery charged seperately at the same rate as the goods (re 2.3)

BUT if you del other peoples goods its full rate (re 2.4)