prices.

[Albedo]

Putting all of these calculations, conveniently, to one side for a moment and pondering the original question, I’ve had a thought.

 

Could it be that the people doing the extraction to roadside have been doing some maths of their own. If they see the firewood vendors selling at £120 a loose cube when they are selling at £40 a tonne at roadside. I forget the maths but a £40 tonne makes more than one loose cube by quite a bit. If I were on the extraction side I would want a bigger slice of this pie.

 

I realise you add your transport and processing costs to the roadside price but could it be that by driving up the price as a firewood vendor you are cutting your own throats by inadvertently driving up the price of supply.

 

I still believe that Big J's calculation is important once the maths can be agreed as this will help to establish a ceiling of how high the price can go.

[gensetsteve]

Putting all of these calculations, conveniently, to one side for a moment and pondering the original question, I’ve had a thought.

 

Could it be that the people doing the extraction to roadside have been doing some maths of their own. If they see the firewood vendors selling at £120 a loose cube when they are selling at £40 a tonne at roadside. I forget the maths but a £40 tonne makes more than one loose cube by quite a bit. If I were on the extraction side I would want a bigger slice of this pie.

 

I realise you add your transport and processing costs to the roadside price but could it be that by driving up the price as a firewood vendor you are cutting your own throats by inadvertently driving up the price of supply.

 

I still believe that Big J's calculation is important once the maths can be agreed as this will help to establish a ceiling of how high the price can go.

 

 

You could have a point but I dont know anyone selling for £120 a cube. Most sell between £60-£80 . A tonne turns into 1.5 cu loose. Selling for £120 for 1.5 cu metres how much are you going to make after you fuel costs wear and tear and 3 hrs graft inc del time if the wood cost u £75 . Shag all.

[18 stoner]

I did a few calcs a while back and this is how it worked out;

 

24 ton load of cord delivered @ £50 ton; £1200.

 

Hired in guy with processor @ £350 day; £700.

 

35 cube produced @ £80 cube; £2800.

 

The above is showing the definative costs involved. No mention of my 2days wages at processing, bags, fuel, vehicle costs, storage, time on delivery, being messed around, handling & delivery machinery etc, etc.

 

It may initially apear a nice profit margin, but in reality its not much, and IMO for the guys who rely on this set up for a living, they deserve that return for the investment.

[ad15]

Putting all of these calculations, conveniently, to one side for a moment and pondering the original question, I’ve had a thought.

 

Could it be that the people doing the extraction to roadside have been doing some maths of their own. If they see the firewood vendors selling at £120 a loose cube when they are selling at £40 a tonne at roadside. I forget the maths but a £40 tonne makes more than one loose cube by quite a bit. If I were on the extraction side I would want a bigger slice of this pie.

 

I realise you add your transport and processing costs to the roadside price but could it be that by driving up the price as a firewood vendor you are cutting your own throats by inadvertently driving up the price of supply.

 

I still believe that Big J's calculation is important once the maths can be agreed as this will help to establish a ceiling of how high the price can go.

 

 

sorry but this argument could be used on EVERYTHING,, from rice, to cars, to lightbulbs to books,,

 

with every product there is a supply chain, from manufacture to end consumer, and every part of that chain adds a bit on for their living,, the first person in a supply chain cannot really be too bothered about how much the guy at the end is selling it for,, unless they decide they want to sell at that end too,,,and then it just winds you up..

 

the brand i used to run used to turnover $75 million,,, but at retail it was $250 million,,, it's just the way it is,,,the factory's that made our stuff werent seeing anywhere near 75k yet they were happy,,

[Albedo]

I did a bit of googling to see if I could find an economic model for my earlier idea. No luck yet but I found this on Wikipedia and thought I would share it:001_smile:

 

Greater fool theory:

 

"Popular among laymen but not fully confirmed by empirical research, greater fool theory portrays bubbles as driven by the behaviour of a perennially optimistic market. Participants (the fools) who buy overvalued assets in anticipation of selling it to other speculators (the greater fools) at a much higher price. According to this unsupported explanation, the bubbles continue as long as the fools can find greater fools to pay up for the overvalued asset. The bubbles will end only when the greater fool becomes the greatest fool who pays the top price for the overvalued asset and can no longer find another buyer to pay for it at a higher price."

 

Disclaimer: I am in no way infering that any other poster in this thread is a 'fool' I just found it amusing. Perhaps its the wine,

Edited December 17, 2010 by Albedo
typo

[Mark Bolam]

I will raise a glass to that Paul!

[Big J]

I might well be out on my kilowatt figure - I used a source that I'm too tired to find at present. I'll try to dig up the link tomorrow.

[gensetsteve]

I did a bit of googling to see if I could find an economic model for my earlier idea. No luck yet but I found this on Wikipedia and thought I would share it:001_smile:

 

Greater fool theory:

 

"Popular among laymen but not fully confirmed by empirical research, greater fool theory portrays bubbles as driven by the behaviour of a perennially optimistic market. Participants (the fools) who buy overvalued assets in anticipation of selling it to other speculators (the greater fools) at a much higher price. According to this unsupported explanation, the bubbles continue as long as the fools can find greater fools to pay up for the overvalued asset. The bubbles will end only when the greater fool becomes the greatest fool who pays the top price for the overvalued asset and can no longer find another buyer to pay for it at a higher price."

 

Disclaimer: I am in no way infering that any other poster in this thread is a 'fool' I just found it amusing. Perhaps its the wine,

 

But this was not written when oil prices were high and in short supply. Was there 12" of snow on the ground. Do you sell logs or are you just a consumer you seem to have a vested interested in lowering the price and profit in the market place.

[baz]

You could have a point but I dont know anyone selling for £120 a cube. Most sell between £60-£80 . .

 

I sell at £120/cube for hardwood logs but that price does include 5% VAT and £30 to £40 quid for the haulier. I guess then you get into a collect versus delivered price. I dont think enough people add value for the time and cost of delivery. Even Tesco charge £5 for deliveries.

 

If you look at my logs 35% is the wood cost (inlcuding bag and pallet), 5% is for the VAT man, 30% for the delivery man which leaves me 30% for my labour, equipment, maintenance, diesel and storage costs. I don't consider that being remotely greedy.

 

If my cord wood goes up 25% in price next year so will my wood price. I'll gear production to demand and if it drops it drops, theres no point in working for nothing.

Edited December 18, 2010 by baz

[Michael C]

If a firewood merchant can get £200/m3, I say good luck to him.

After production costs are taken into account, its down to supply and demand after that.

It would be a pretty rubbish businessman that wouldnt try to get the best price possible for his product.