Whats Wrong With the Current System.

[Lee Winger]

The below courses are reasonably priced, NPTC why so much more expensive???????

 

http://www.capel.ac.uk/courses/Arboriculture/courses_list.htm

[Pete Mctree]

Refresher courses! further industry advancement!! etc etc etc BS! what we need to do is get out there and get earning a proper wage! we need to raise the industry profile! we aren't unskilled labourers!

 

 

IMO all this rubbish about the NPTC overhaul etc etc is all about putting more money into trainers and NPTC/LANTRA/CITY&GUILDS/ BLAH BLAH BLAH'S pockets, imo there interest is the training industry and not a lot else, and by coming on here and spouting this that and the other, all they are doing is trying to pull the wool over our eyes!

 

Will someone EXPLAIN to me why NPTC courses are so expensive ''comparred'' to other trade courses? do you big wig trainers think its acceptable charging the best part of £800 on average to train a person to use nothing more than a chainsaw with a 15'' bar? for the life of me I can't see how NPTC/LANTRA/C&G can warrent such a price!

 

If they had the industries best interests we would train tree workers the way other trades do, and at a similar costing! it doesn't cost anywhere near to train up an electrician, as it does a tree surgeon, and I mean anywhere near!

 

Fair point Lee, as long as you don't complain about the standards of people entering the industry that is.

 

 

As for training a sparky, would you let one with a couple of weeks training re-wire your house?

[Lee Winger]

Fair point Lee, as long as you don't complain about the standards of people entering the industry that is.

 

 

As for training a sparky, would you let one with a couple of weeks training re-wire your house?

 

Well that would be down to the firm to judge if the employe is competent enough to re-wire my house, i'm sure a reputable company would oversea the work of a newb, If I opted for the cheapest quote and a kid straight out of college then i'd say its my tough luck if the house burns down ...

[Mr Ed]

Lee - Looked at Roped access course costs recently? or HETAS / Corgi registration costs? or Citb plant tickets? They all seem rather expensive to me.

 

I might have said this already, But I like the way the Forest Machine Operator certificates are handled - Provisional licence issued, enabeling the holder to work under supervision, a requirement to log training / instruction hours, and the need to complete the assesment before 6 months is up.

This allows an employer to vet a potential operator without having to splash out on the certificate straight away.

[Laz]

feel so strongly about this issue that we have devoted some personal web space to reflect upon the many issues.

 

It’s a bit slow to load – allow all content to run- and turn your volume down slightly.

http://brommo.supanet.com/

 

Thanks

 

ALF55

 

..........No! Turn the volume up!

[DriveLink]

Will someone EXPLAIN to me why NPTC courses are so expensive ''compared'' to other trade courses? do you trainers think its acceptable charging the best part of £800 on average to train a person to use nothing more than a chainsaw with a poxy 15'' bar? for the life of me I can't see how NPTC/LANTRA/C&G can warrent such a price!

 

Lee, where did you get this £800 figure from? In fact, can I try and get some understanding of what this actually relates to?

 

At Sparsholt, the 5-day CS31 course is £590 - the rest is NPTC registration at £29, and assessment at £60. That means that for the four days of actual tuition, the college receives UNDER £150/day; that also includes the free use of transport to and from the site, loan of personal protective equipment, loan of the chainsaw and fuel / spares as needed. As a daily rate that's cheap! Even training organisations / individuals need to make some money to live on - why begrudge us our livelihood - we're trying to help the industry by producing people that have some knowledge of how to use a saw, how to fell, sned / delimb safely and have an understanding of some of the environmental and legal issues too. In four days.

 

I'd be interested to know what your / your company daily rate is.

 

Also, the views of Lee are not that uncommon - how do we get to show you that training in someone is an INVESTMENT in them and your business?

[Log-ologist]

... how do we get to show you that training in someone is an INVESTMENT in them and your business?

 

You cant if they decide to go off and start up on their own. The perpetual problem encountered by large firms.

 

The cream who earn you the money subsidise the average and are soon off to earn the bosses rate not the workers rate.

[Lee Winger]

Lee, where did you get this £800 figure from? In fact, can I try and get some understanding of what this actually relates to?

 

At Sparsholt, the 5-day CS31 course is £590 - the rest is NPTC registration at £29, and assessment at £60. That means that for the four days of actual tuition, the college receives UNDER £150/day; that also includes the free use of transport to and from the site, loan of personal protective equipment, loan of the chainsaw and fuel / spares as needed. As a daily rate that's cheap! Even training organisations / individuals need to make some money to live on - why begrudge us our livelihood - we're trying to help the industry by producing people that have some knowledge of how to use a saw, how to fell, sned / delimb safely and have an understanding of some of the environmental and legal issues too. In four days.

 

I'd be interested to know what your / your company daily rate is.

 

Also, the views of Lee are not that uncommon - how do we get to show you that training in someone is an INVESTMENT in them and your business?

 

Sparsholt offers a keen price add a couple of hundred for these parts, thats where I get my £800, don't forget to add wages, and MY loss of earnings ie non productive employe for a week, anyway lets say you have 6 peeps on a course thats £900 a day not bad for 1 tutor and not a lot else! expensive wouldn't you agree? some of the training providers around here don't even provide a decent site/trees to fell, one chap employed by myself cut his teeth on felling blackthorn! I was disgusted to say the least

 

I'll tell you one thing I don't know how much you guys think us contractors charge, but rarely do we get £900 per day for 3 men, lorry and chipper, climbing gear, insurance , quals etc etc some of the lads on here struggle to get £300 a day for 2 men, chipper and transit..

 

So to answer your question ''what does the cost relate too'' i'd say quite a bit!

[Lee Winger]

For the record the only people i'll ever train up again are my kids!

[Andy Collins]

You cant if they decide to go off and start up on their own. The perpetual problem encountered by large firms.

 

The cream who earn you the money subsidise the average and are soon off to earn the bosses rate not the workers rate.

 

And lets face it, who can blame them. With the low rates of pay I see some working for, there is hardly an incentive to stay at a company. And after all, this is how many have become bosses, being disillusioned with being in someone elses employ.

I wonder if there is some room for improvement on the current system, but keeping most of it the same, and integrating the provisional system, leading to full tickets, then progressing up a scale for time served, experience in various fields and so on. This way the employer is filling his training obligations, the trainee has a series of small, affordable, attainable goals. Time served would be logged down, and would be a part of the CPD of the person. After all, whats the use of having lets say a person on the books with every ticket available, yet all they do 11 months of the year is landscaping, with occasional saw use thrown in, the persons experience is low, yet he can claim to have been "in the game" for say 5 years, and yet is no better than a raw recruit.

With CPD there is no need for there to be a huge expense, the employer is responsible for upkeep of paperwork, the employee logs his days work, hours on saw/in tree, then an assessor could come in say every 5years, and do the whole team in one hit, check paperwork and go, at a minimum cost.