Is it too easy?

[Andy Collins]

On the ariel rescue side of things. I've seen first hand, a situation arise where a fully competent climber/rescuer, with all tickets and experience, years of military training in Bomb Disposal and the International Rescue Corps lost it. A climber had a nasty wound to his hand quite high in the tree. The "designated" rescuer on site got in a real flap, chasing around in circles getting nowhere. I shouted instruction to the climber, basically to hold his hand above his head and descend. I called for another groundie to fetch the 1st aid kit, and bring the truck over ready. As soon as the climber touched down, I unclipped his harness, the other groundie administered 1st aid as the climber passed out. "Rescuer" is like a fart in a trance by now...useless. We get climber into truck and whisk him straight to A&E. Now I'm not knocking the benefits of training and certificates, but none of these can truly prepare anyone for the real life, real world of blood and gore in a typical accident in our work, it can be shocking for the rescuer, and having a victim screaming in agony dripping his claret all over the place is something you cannot realistically prepare for. Perhaps we need a military-style medics course, with fake injuries looking as realistic as possible, to prepare us for te absolute worst case scenario.

[Heads up]

Very good post andy. Its something i often bring up when ariel rescue is talked about the the guys i work with. No matter how good and quick a climber you may be if you cant deal with the situation thats unfolding whats the use of a dedicated rescue climber? None of us know how we will react. so self rescue should be taught as part of 38.

[Mike Hill]

No I do not think making the NPTC Certs harder would work.

 

I think a more stringent vetting and tougher Character of Students getting into Training organisations is what is needed.

 

Also a Production based assesment would be helpful.I.e a Trainer visiting you on site and asessing you abilitly to actually perform the tasks in a Production situation would help

[richyrich]

i've recently done the cs38 course, there was a chap on there whom got a "blue book" when he got his certification in the early nineties.

 

He's taking a young lad on so the college told him he has to do the cs38/39/40/41 etc

 

there is nothing wrong with them blue books!

[melvyn]

Frank,it's a good topic for discussion.Essentially the ticket is a green light to consolidate and enhance skills.I do think there is merit in having a loler type system were a ticketed climber should keep a record of were he/she has practised ariel rescue,mandatory every six months?,and areas that they feel needs improving.Employer and employee both benefit from this,it's not under test conditions and demonstrates health and safety awareness.

[Frank]

Frank,it's a good topic for discussion.Essentially the ticket is a green light to consolidate and enhance skills.I do think there is merit in having a loler type system were a ticketed climber should keep a record of were he/she has practised ariel rescue,mandatory every six months?,and areas that they feel needs improving.Employer and employee both benefit from this,it's not under test conditions and demonstrates health and safety awareness.

 

Now there's a good idea. Think it would only really work in larger companies though. I.e: 4 or more employees.

I think Bobs idea was also a really good one whereby you do an advanced type course every year (or x amount of years) and you earn points or something similar until you earn "master arborist" status. like the ISA scheme.

[DN22 Gardening]

all this talk of 'ongoing assesment' is fine for all you lot in large companies or LA's, with deep pockets.

 

What about the army of us out there, battling to survive, 1 climber, 1 qualified groundie ( if your lucky, some donkey from the pub if your not)

 

Where does the money come from ????

 

I've paid for two lads to do their CS 30,31. (at a cost of about £1000 a time)

One left after the first winter.

The other went contracting on the power lines.

 

The time comes when you think "hold on a mo"

 

The current lad i've got has been with me for 16 months now, uses his own saws at home, but, according to my insurance, he can't use them at work.

i've told him i'll put him through the course, but if he leaves within a year i'll be wanting the fees back.

He's said he's not bothered about doing it then !!!

 

What to do.

 

As for putting myself through more tickets, paper work, expense !!!!

 

We're currently working 7 days a week (of today coz its honking it down so doing paper work....errrrr:blushing:)

 

 

 

 

Discuss

 

:lol:

[roseyweb]

Doberman

Seems like one of the best comments I've herd for a long time. Seems like alot of the people commenting on this forum are living in a AFAG leaflet paradise, were everyone is blessed with Ariel rescuers, first aiders, and no one starts a saw unless the Risk assessment and method statement say yes.

 

In the real world tree work is price competing with ******, who will just fell/top smash and run for less money, and trying to makie a profit and decent job with what little resources you have

I'd love to have a Hi-Flex wearing shinney aerial rescuer with binoculars in one hand and a first aid kit in the other watching me and ensuring my continued safety. But 9/10 days I have to settle for a donkey from the pub, and the job always gets done just as well. When I start doing £900 days 5 days a week I'll put that donkey in a shinny jacket and through some tickets. Till then I'll keep paying carrots and making a small profit

[Frank]

Doberman

Seems like one of the best comments I've herd for a long time. Seems like alot of the people commenting on this forum are living in a AFAG leaflet paradise, were everyone is blessed with Ariel rescuers, first aiders, and no one starts a saw unless the Risk assessment and method statement say yes.

 

In the real world tree work is price competing with ******, who will just fell/top smash and run for less money, and trying to makie a profit and decent job with what little resources you have

I'd love to have a Hi-Flex wearing shinney aerial rescuer with binoculars in one hand and a first aid kit in the other watching me and ensuring my continued safety. But 9/10 days I have to settle for a donkey from the pub, and the job always gets done just as well. When I start doing £900 days 5 days a week I'll put that donkey in a shinny jacket and through some tickets. Till then I'll keep paying carrots and making a small profit

Ridiculous.