Refresher traning.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

HSE was here today for anual inspection. The outcome was i need a refresher course for chainsaw. I have CS30 31 and CS32. Am i right in saying if i do CS34 or CS50 this counts as a refresher sorry as i don't crasp the above as i am a little backward:lol:

 

Hi David,

 

I'm most interested that you say you had your HSE annual inspection...was that by chance or by invitation? (I'm usually of the opinion that HSE visits/inspections are a little like finding 'rocking horse poo', very rare if ever.)

 

In terms of 'refreshers' perse, Lantra Awards do offer a suite of specific refresher training courses but I'm not sure whether these are available for all NPTC units. Secondly, bespoke (but defensible if challenged) refresher training can be delivered directly by a Lantra Trainer if you have ready access to one.

 

BUT, often we (under the AC scheme) meet resistence to these as it's viewed as repeating the same thing and hence attainment of an additional unit, as you describe, is more appealing, i.e. refresher training + an additional competence skill. We recognise this, provided it is relevant, i.e. CS32 to CS34 or CS39 to CS41, within the AC scheme.

 

Interesting you refer to CS50, whihc is 'new' to me, "Techniques for Dealing With Damaged Trees" and reading the assessment schedule it makes much refernce to rootplate stailisation and severance...hence how much differnt is it to CS34 Windblown tree?....dunno!

 

Cheers..

Paul

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

afaik dont you need 33 before you can take 34? i cant remember if you do. 34 is a fun course though, dealing with serious tension and compression!

 

what are the prerequisites for being an AC?

 

 

Hi Rob, thanks for the post n pointers.

 

As David mentioned, n having just checked the NPTC webiste, the pre-requisite for CS34 (Single windblow) is CS32 (Felling medium trees).

 

In terms of AC reqs. we largely follow the HSE guidance in AFAG 805 (Training and Certification) not requring NPTCs for chippers n grinders etc. BUT we do require CS41, sectional felling/dismantling, whihc is sometimes a sticking point...more particularly when someone demonstrates a rigging job really well, safely and competently, but then informs us he doesn't have the ticket = aghhhhh!!!! coz we have to insist on it!

 

Re-AC take on refresher training I've posted that early.

 

If you want/need anything more please let me know.

 

All the best..

Paul

PS Hope the 'Mrs Potts' job went well...ha!

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Hi Rob, thanks for the post n pointers.

 

As David mentioned, n having just checked the NPTC webiste, the pre-requisite for CS34 (Single windblow) is CS32 (Felling medium trees).

 

In terms of AC reqs. we largely follow the HSE guidance in AFAG 805 (Training and Certification) not requring NPTCs for chippers n grinders etc. BUT we do require CS41, sectional felling/dismantling, whihc is sometimes a sticking point...more particularly when someone demonstrates a rigging job really well, safely and competently, but then informs us he doesn't have the ticket = aghhhhh!!!! coz we have to insist on it!

 

Re-AC take on refresher training I've posted that early.

 

If you want/need anything more please let me know.

 

All the best..

Paul

PS Hope the 'Mrs Potts' job went well...ha!

 

Paul, you say "we insist on it" but having been in this industry for 20 odd years and having dealt with scenarios that would make your toes curl on many many occasions (i am still here to tell the tales!) how can the AA justify forcing a highly experianced (in many cases more so than any of the "assesors") arbs to pay for re training or units that quite frankly they do not need, iether in an ideal world or in a real world!

 

Some of us could and would show the assesors a trick or two, and our money is better spent on "advanced CPD" than re doing pointless excersises.

 

sorry to have a bit of a dig for a change, but i really do feel this whole redoing of NPTC tickets just job creation for the "boys" who quite frankly couldnt do better!

[skyhuck]

Paul, you say "we insist on it" but having been in this industry for 20 odd years and having dealt with scenarios that would make your toes curl on many many occasions (i am still here to tell the tales!) how can the AA justify forcing a highly experianced (in many cases more so than any of the "assesors") arbs to pay for re training or units that quite frankly they do not need, iether in an ideal world or in a real world!

 

Some of us could and would show the assesors a trick or two, and our money is better spent on "advanced CPD" than re doing pointless excersises.

 

sorry to have a bit of a dig for a change, but i really do feel this whole redoing of NPTC tickets just job creation for the "boys" who quite frankly couldnt do better!

 

:congrats:

[Big 'Ammer]

:congrats:

 

 

I don't want, or need, to pay to demonstrate to someone else how to fell a tree safely or to remove limbs using a rope and pulley block in a basic textbook fashion.

 

I have already done that and got the qualifications.

 

I am not about to start to carry out tree work in a haphazard fashion, just because my certificates are getting a little dated.

 

I'm learning more every day, because I'm doing it every day.

 

That said, I would be interested in attending something where I could learn some new tips and tricks to enable me to work easier and faster, that took into account my existing qualifications and experience and didn't need to be assessed at the end of it.

[David oakman]

Hi David,

 

I'm most interested that you say you had your HSE annual inspection...was that by chance or by invitation? (I'm usually of the opinion that HSE visits/inspections are a little like finding 'rocking horse poo', very rare if ever.)

 

In terms of 'refreshers' perse, Lantra Awards do offer a suite of specific refresher training courses but I'm not sure whether these are available for all NPTC units. Secondly, bespoke (but defensible if challenged) refresher training can be delivered directly by a Lantra Trainer if you have ready access to one.

 

BUT, often we (under the AC scheme) meet resistence to these as it's viewed as repeating the same thing and hence attainment of an additional unit, as you describe, is more appealing, i.e. refresher training + an additional competence skill. We recognise this, provided it is relevant, i.e. CS32 to CS34 or CS39 to CS41, within the AC scheme.

 

Interesting you refer to CS50, whihc is 'new' to me, "Techniques for Dealing With Damaged Trees" and reading the assessment schedule it makes much refernce to rootplate stailisation and severance...hence how much differnt is it to CS34 Windblown tree?....dunno!

 

Cheers..

Paul

 

Paul he was invited but he is not actually HSE he is one of those companys that look after HSE matters on the estate and makes sure things are tickety boo. Thanks for your reply i will go with CS34:thumbup1: As i said somewhere before last year i had to do a refresher for pesticides and it was word for word what he said 6 years ago:lol: Apart from a free lunch it was a waist of money:001_smile:

[David oakman]

I also agree with big ammer. I do the same job day after day year after year and with different trees you learn something new every day. It is better to move forward learn about spotting signs of rot, what types of fungi cause different sorts of rot white brown and soft ect:001_smile:

[skyhuck]

Would a professional driver go for more training with a normal driving instructor??

 

NO!!!!!!!!!! that would be STUPID!!!!!!!!!! and a waste of time and money!!

 

They would go and do some advanced driver training, maybe train on a skid pan, this would improve there skills, not simple remeasure them.

 

People use the example of first aid or hiab training, but these are skills that many learn and then do not use on a regular basic, so more repeat training has a place.

 

Its the AA's backing for this kind of patronizing, money making repeat training, that makes many disengage with them IMO.

 

As others have said lets have some advanced courses for those with older tickets and years of experience to take, that way we would learn new skills, but also we could have the bad habits we may have picked up over years pointed out by the instructor.

 

I would be more than happy to give my hard earned cash and time for such a course, but to do a new version of a ticket I took 15 years ago, is just a money making scam IMO.

[David oakman]

Spot on Skyhuck about the first aid. Touch wood i never use it apart from a plaster or two a bit of cream on a blackthorn prick. We have a first aid course every 3 years and as said if you never use it you tend to forget plus the first aid does change i know the last one several bits changed and the lady said we don't do that anymore so that is worth the money:001_smile:

[porky]

I will soon have to do a cs 31 as a refresher to stay on a LA list. This will be the 6th "basic course" I will have attended in my life - anybody top that?