Ancient oak tree cut down in Whitewebbs Park Enfield

[Paul in the woods]

6 hours ago, oldwoodcutter said:

What’s that old saying - one man’s beauty is another man’s firewood 

I was thinking more along the lines of "one man's pollard is another man's unfinished job."

[Paul in the woods]

16 hours ago, Gordon S said:

If they hadn't and wind had blown the tree onto someone then everyone would have been screaming corporate manslaughter and a company putting profit before the welfare of the public.

 

When I first saw the story there were several social media posts by people posting old photos of their children standing underneath the tree. If it was old and prone to dropping the odd branch I can see why someone would want to cut it down. 

 

I wonder if it had been fenced off and a notice put up would that absolve them of liability if someone had climbed over the fence and been injured by the tree.

[Mesterh]

Or, one man's Pollard is a customer trying to save a few quid. 

 

[AHPP]

2 minutes ago, Paul in the woods said:

I wonder if it had been fenced off and a notice put up would that absolve them of liability if someone had climbed over the fence and been injured by the tree.

 

Basically no. 

[Matthew Norman]

  

On 16/04/2025 at 17:57, Mick Dempsey said:

Shame, but no TPO, no crime.

 

Non-story for me, soon to be forgotten. 

 

I agree that with no TPO there was no crime, and this is why the police have closed their case, citing it as a civil matter not a criminal matter. However, myself and many others, disagree about it being a non-story. This is a story, of how trees with inherent and irreplaceable value, are easily and relatively quickly lost foreever. 

 

  

On 16/04/2025 at 15:47, Yournamehere said:

Just out of interest, would a job like this normally be done from a platform or would it normally be roped?

I was wondering if it was done from a platform because that would be quicker (because able to drop bigger lumps) because they knew they had to get in and get it down on the ground as fast as possible: ie before too many people noticed/could do anything about it.

TIA

Yourn

  

Working at height hierarchy would expect contractors to use a MEWP before climbing. It seems there was ample space and opportunity for a MEWP to be used. 

 

On 15/04/2025 at 20:53, kram said:

Questions need to be asked as to why the council did not have a TPO on it, considering the rarity of ancients, and the fact they are well mapped on the ancient trees website. Some tree officers need sacking!

 

However I dont think councils are the right people to manage valuable trees. They often do what they like anyway, particually if any money is involved.

I believe ancient trees such as this should have some protection. Perhaps limiting removal but allowing crown lowering where nessasary.

 

Naturally as they age, the roots are unable to support a large crown, the tops die back and a lower crown will grow. The old tops can be good habbitat but also become unsafe and often get pruned.

  

No TPO as the council don't need to protect their own trees. Sacking tree officers wouldn't have prevented this happening, and won't prevent it happening again. We need tree officers now more than ever. The fact that some councils are getting rid of tree officers and putting the responsibility of managing trees onto other departments with little-to-no knowledge of trees is concerning. 

 

Local authorities are best suited to managing their own valuable trees. They should take ownership of ancient and veteran trees, be proud to have them, and gain expert advice where needed. 

 

Ancient, veteran and other notable trees should be protected, and that is why organisations such as the Ancient Tree Forum and The Woodland Trust campaign to get them protected. 

 

On 15/04/2025 at 20:27, stick-man-max said:

Toby Carvery owner admits cutting down ancient Enfield oak tree

WWW.BBC.COM

---

The felling of a much-loved and centuries-old north London oak tree was initially reported to police.

 

 

What do you think of this?  Would've thought a tree of this size and age would be protected by a TPO.  Would also be interested to know who the " specialist arboriculture contractors" are and what their report stated

 

I think it's an absolute shame. Ancient and veteran trees provide a wealth of ecosystem services that are often irreplaceable. Once the tree has gone so has the benefits the tree provided. 

 

There was no TPO because the local authority owned the tree. The LA doesn't need to protect their own trees from themselves. 

 

I imagine the name of the contractor will come out later, similar to how the names of the individuals responsible for felling the sycamore gap tree eventually surfaced. Someone knows who they are. 

 

 

[JLA1990]

26 minutes ago, Matthew Norman said:

  

 

I agree that with no TPO there was no crime, and this is why the police have closed their case, citing it as a civil matter not a criminal matter. However, myself and many others, disagree about it being a non-story. This is a story, of how trees with inherent and irreplaceable value, are easily and relatively quickly lost foreever. 

 

  

  

Working at height hierarchy would expect contractors to use a MEWP before climbing. It seems there was ample space and opportunity for a MEWP to be used. 

 

  

No TPO as the council don't need to protect their own trees. Sacking tree officers wouldn't have prevented this happening, and won't prevent it happening again. We need tree officers now more than ever. The fact that some councils are getting rid of tree officers and putting the responsibility of managing trees onto other departments with little-to-no knowledge of trees is concerning. 

 

Local authorities are best suited to managing their own valuable trees. They should take ownership of ancient and veteran trees, be proud to have them, and gain expert advice where needed. 

 

Ancient, veteran and other notable trees should be protected, and that is why organisations such as the Ancient Tree Forum and The Woodland Trust campaign to get them protected. 

 

 

I think it's an absolute shame. Ancient and veteran trees provide a wealth of ecosystem services that are often irreplaceable. Once the tree has gone so has the benefits the tree provided. 

 

There was no TPO because the local authority owned the tree. The LA doesn't need to protect their own trees from themselves. 

 

I imagine the name of the contractor will come out later, similar to how the names of the individuals responsible for felling the sycamore gap tree eventually surfaced. Someone knows who they are. 

 

 

No but the tree was under third party management so the LA should have put a TPO on the tree. The contractor has done nothing wrong, the LA should have protected its tree! How hard would it have been to put a TPO on it - they can’t have their cake and eat it, I appreciate it was a lovely tree and a real shame to lose however this faux outrage is slightly ridiculous from the authorities point of view (public - yes although a minutes silence is laughable).

[openspaceman]

3 hours ago, JLA1990 said:

How hard would it have been to put a TPO on it

How much does it cost to TPO a tree?

[JLA1990]

1 hour ago, openspaceman said:

How much does it cost to TPO a tree?

Well as the tree was already known/owned by the LA and had previous surveys done, all it would have cost is the admin fee & time it takes to update files….. so £50-100???? (Happy to be informed otherwise)

[kram]

4 hours ago, Matthew Norman said:

No TPO as the council don't need to protect their own trees. Sacking tree officers wouldn't have prevented this happening, and won't prevent it happening again. We need tree officers now more than ever. The fact that some councils are getting rid of tree officers and putting the responsibility of managing trees onto other departments with little-to-no knowledge of trees is concerning. 

 

Local authorities are best suited to managing their own valuable trees. They should take ownership of ancient and veteran trees, be proud to have them, and gain expert advice where needed. 

 

Ancient, veteran and other notable trees should be protected, and that is why organisations such as the Ancient Tree Forum and The Woodland Trust campaign to get them protected. 

Clearly we will not agree on this. I know my local tree officers and have worked with them in the local council recently. Trees need better protection than that.

[kram]

1 hour ago, openspaceman said:

How much does it cost to TPO a tree?

If were generous and say a tree takes 2 or 3 hours of a tree officers time for travel, inspection, van seat polishing and paperwork, a tiny fraction of that officers salary

Edited Saturday at 19:14 by kram