Sub Contract Climbing

[Joe Newton]

On 03/05/2024 at 17:12, Bolt said:

An alternative read…

 

 

I remember that. Adam does raise some good points but it also reads a bit of a whinge.

My experience of being a freelancer is quite different.

 

Better money/ work life balance. Generally easier days and i don't have to put up with working for people i don't like. 

[Matthew Norman]

Hi Treelover1000

 

1. Get in touch with individuals and companies that need your service. Have a clear plan of what you will and won't do, and where your competency lies. Think about distances you're willing to travel, tasks you're willing and able to do, kit you have or need to get, etc. Be familiar with what the legal responsibilities of yourself and your client are. 

 

2.  How much do you need? This can only be answered by yourself, and is between you and your employer. 

 

3. I started freelancing in 2009 and have able to keep my diary relatively full about a month in advance. Keep in mind that as a subbie you will often be the first one to be dropped at short notice. It will take you a while to work out who you do and do not want to work for, and to build professional relationships. 

 

For me, freelancing was the best way forward from my position as an employee with a utility arb firm. I have learned so much in the years since, and matured personally and professionally over this time. My skills,  qualifications and experiences have only increased, and having the freedom associated with being self employed was a huge improvement in my life. 

 

Freelancing isn't for everyone, and the threat of not having work coming in and therefore not earning can be daunting. Managing your time, kit, training, LOLER, machinery purchases, vehicle etc. is important, so is building trusting relationships with whoever you are working for.  

[Mick Dempsey]

One thing worth considering.

If you’re contacting companies to offer your service, it’s likely they are already using someone else, in order to use you, they’ll cut the other guy adrift.

Now it could be the first guy is a nightmare, unreliable, or simply charges a bit more than you are going to charge to get your foot in the door.

But in a few years, when some eager young buck contacts the same companies, and you find the phone has gone quiet, the boot will be on the other foot.
 

 

[Joe Newton]

8 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

One thing worth considering.

If you’re contacting companies to offer your service, it’s likely they are already using someone else, in order to use you, they’ll cut the other guy adrift.

Now it could be the first guy is a nightmare, unreliable, or simply charges a bit more than you are going to charge to get your foot in the door.

But in a few years, when some eager young buck contacts the same companies, and you find the phone has gone quiet, the boot will be on the other foot.
 

 

I've not found that to be the case generally speaking.

 

Most firms prefer to stick with who they know will get the job done rather than risking a new climber who may or may not turn up and be any good. 

[Mick Dempsey]

1 hour ago, Joe Newton said:

I've not found that to be the case generally speaking.

 

Most firms prefer to stick with who they know will get the job done rather than risking a new climber who may or may not turn up and be any good. 

I’m sure it’s not done in one fell swoop.

They pull him in on easy work, where there’s not as much money in it and there’s no need to pay for a top drawer climber.

Then, incrementally, he’ll get more and more, till you end up delivering pizzas on your mobility scooter just to make ends meet.

[AHPP]

I'm a freelance climber with very little work so probably an example you can learn something from. This is how to have 26 days off a month. 

 

I started by doing any day I could get, regardless of how little it paid. Had a pad of money from a previous job and was living at home so rolled any profit back into kit. I did however have fairly hard rules from the beginning on what I wouldn't do. Hedge topping because it's miserable and reductions/topping because I didn't want to get into any fannyish arguments about too much/not enough off etc. So that narrowed the field quite a lot. Firms hiring freelancers just want to hear, "Yes, mate. No problem." I shut a lot of doors or had them shut on me by refusing to prune. As time went on, I became pickier still and started saying removals only. Couldn't even be arsed with deadwooding. 

I also started quite actively discriminating against employers whose ethics don't jive with mine. I don't do dolescum work and I don't help people who do. Council, state schools, quangos like the canals, the various trusts etc. Anything with a whiff of taxpayer and the answer's no. It started with not doing individual jobs and turned into just refusing to deal with people who did any public sector work, me involved or not. 

The thing that probably lost me the most work was when I decided climbers' wages were a piss take and I was going to be the change I wanted to see. I started increasing my rate fairly agressively, usually about double the rate of inflation plus whatever I fancied. I crawled to the top of normal dayrates and then came on cam and kept going. At time of writing, I price to walk away from any day with £380 after day-costs (mainly van fuel). That usually means a day rate starting at £420. The most I've charged is £620. I now only get either big stuff for proper firms or gypsies/landscapers that aren't capable of hiring anyone cheaper because the cheaper guys don't have the gear I do. Nothing in the middle doing normal sized work. That's all looked after by people happy do whatever for whoever for £150-250.

 

I hasten to add I'm good, well equipped and extremely reliable. I'm not the guy with a climbing kit and 200 and a red bull for breakfast, probably slightly late to the yard. I'm the guy who's at site, before you, with everything. But there are only so many people who need that and will pay for it. 

 

So that's how to not fill your diary. Be picky and price yourself like you don't want to work (which I don't). 

Edited May 6 by AHPP

[roys]

12 minutes ago, AHPP said:

I'm a freelance climber with very little work so probably an example you can learn something from. This is how to have 26 days off a month. 

 

I started by doing any job I could get, regardless of how little it paid. Had a pad of money from a previous job and was living at home so rolled any profit back into kit. I did however have fairly hard rules from the beginning on what I wouldn't do. Hedge topping because it's miserable and reductions/topping because I didn't want to get into any fannyish arguments about too much/not enough off etc. So that narrowed the field quite a lot. Firms hiring freelancers want to hear, "Yes, mate. No problem." I shut a lot of doors or had them shut on me by refusing to prune. As time went on, I became pickier still and started saying removals only. Couldn't even be arsed with deadwooding. 

I also started quite actively discriminating against employers whose ethics don't jive with mine. I don't do dolescum work and I don't help people who do. Council, state schools, quangos like the canals, the various trusts who rape the taxpayer etc. Anything with a whiff of taxpayer and the answer's no. It started with not doing individual jobs and turned into just refusing to deal with people who did any public sector work, me involved or not. 

The thing that probably lost me the most work was when I decided climbers' wages were a piss take and I was going to be the change I wanted to see. I started increasing my rate fairly agressively, usually about double the rate of inflation plus whatever I fancied. I crawled to the top of normal dayrates and then came on cam and kept going. At time of writing, I price to walk away from any day with £380 after day-costs (mainly van fuel). That usually means a day rate starting at £440. The most I've charged is £620. I now only get either big stuff for proper firms or gypsies/landscapers that aren't capable of hiring anyone cheaper because the cheaper guys don't have the gear I do. Nothing in the middle doing normal sized work. That's all looked after by people happy do whatever for whoever for £150-250.

 

I hasten to add I'm good, well equipped and extremely reliable. I'm not the guy with a climbing kit and 200 and a red bull for breakfast, probably slightly late to the yard. I'm the guy who's at site, before you, with everything. But there are only so many people who need that and will pay for it. 

 

So that's how to not fill your diary. Be picky and price yourself like you don't want to work (which I don't). 

You also do a mighty fine job of pulling out rhododendron😀 

[AHPP]

Tree facebook is currently full of freelance climbers wanting more work btw.

[Sviatoslav Tulin]

On 06/05/2024 at 13:33, AHPP said:

I'm a freelance climber with very little work so probably an example you can learn something from. This is how to have 26 days off a month. 

 

I started by doing any day I could get, regardless of how little it paid. Had a pad of money from a previous job and was living at home so rolled any profit back into kit. I did however have fairly hard rules from the beginning on what I wouldn't do. Hedge topping because it's miserable and reductions/topping because I didn't want to get into any fannyish arguments about too much/not enough off etc. So that narrowed the field quite a lot. Firms hiring freelancers just want to hear, "Yes, mate. No problem." I shut a lot of doors or had them shut on me by refusing to prune. As time went on, I became pickier still and started saying removals only. Couldn't even be arsed with deadwooding. 

I also started quite actively discriminating against employers whose ethics don't jive with mine. I don't do dolescum work and I don't help people who do. Council, state schools, quangos like the canals, the various trusts etc. Anything with a whiff of taxpayer and the answer's no. It started with not doing individual jobs and turned into just refusing to deal with people who did any public sector work, me involved or not. 

The thing that probably lost me the most work was when I decided climbers' wages were a piss take and I was going to be the change I wanted to see. I started increasing my rate fairly agressively, usually about double the rate of inflation plus whatever I fancied. I crawled to the top of normal dayrates and then came on cam and kept going. At time of writing, I price to walk away from any day with £380 after day-costs (mainly van fuel). That usually means a day rate starting at £420. The most I've charged is £620. I now only get either big stuff for proper firms or gypsies/landscapers that aren't capable of hiring anyone cheaper because the cheaper guys don't have the gear I do. Nothing in the middle doing normal sized work. That's all looked after by people happy do whatever for whoever for £150-250.

 

I hasten to add I'm good, well equipped and extremely reliable. I'm not the guy with a climbing kit and 200 and a red bull for breakfast, probably slightly late to the yard. I'm the guy who's at site, before you, with everything. But there are only so many people who need that and will pay for it. 

 

So that's how to not fill your diary. Be picky and price yourself like you don't want to work (which I don't). 

I have same attitude and my diary is full except middle summer🤩 nice to see that I’m not alone.

[AHPP]

You must be better at your job than I am. Or at least more likeable.