Max working at height wind speed.

[Jamie edwards]

Looking for some clarity here, less opinion, more fact with links to official documentation that can be reviewed. 

I'm struggling to find the details of max wind speed for WAH. 

Ive looked through (slightly more than a skim read but not full on front to back reading of The AA's ICoP - tree work at height- https://www.trees.org.uk/Trees.org.uk/files/aa/aaa89992-0539-4615-9af4-32b0582a13f4.pdf  and couldn't find any reference to this. 

Considering the Rope access part of the industry is regulated by IRATA, I checked their resources: IRATA International code of practice for industrial rope access-https://www.5thpoint.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/part-3-annex-o-2016-sep-01_1.pdf 

 

Again, I struggled to find an answer. 

I did find a statement randomly on https://hi-pointscaffolding.co.uk/blog/at-what-wind-speed-do-you-stop-working-at-heights/

that reads: The general consensus is that workers should not work at heights during strong winds. Expert opinion differs on the strength of the wind, with it ranging from 18 MPH right up to 40 MPH. However, HSE states that winds above 23 MPH (Force 5) will affect a worker’s balance. 

- I NOTE: this really is directed to the construction industry not Arb

 

For MEWP operation its down to the MEWP- I know for E.G. A Multitel SMX250 is Max wind speed: 27.96mph / 12,5 m/s

For rope access we've always stayed below 19mph / 8.5 m/s

There's also the consideration of material being taken off, the way it handles in wind sheer, etc. when its free falling/ rigged loading so whilst climbing might be viable, actually removing material safely may not.

 

But my question is: what is the LEGAL max windspeed/ Industry Recommended max windspeed?

 

I know it's also down to the climber,/ operator and other conditions, such as temperature, etc. 

 

Really like to be educated on this matter. 

Thanks in advance. 

[Will C]

Stop worrying about and expecting the nanny state to answer a simple question. Some trees work in a wind some don’t!

Asses each job and call it as you see fit not as somebody who probably has a degree in the subject but has never climbed a tree dictates to you! 

I’ve climbed up to 60mph winds with gusts well over that that was the exception rather than the rule but 40mph winds are common here and just worked with.  if we stopped every time the was a 19mph or over wind we would work about a week all winter!  

[Mick Dempsey]

Agreed, there are so many variables. 
I remember reducing an oak in high winds. 
I had to stop, not because it felt dangerous, but because the bits I cut were ending up two gardens away!

Wouldn’t contemplate climbing  a Lombardy in the same conditions. 
 

[maybelateron]

4 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

Agreed, there are so many variables. 
I remember reducing an oak in high winds. 
I had to stop, not because it felt dangerous, but because the bits I cut were ending up two gardens away!

Yes, I had the same many years ago working on a Eucalyptus. Strong wind, strong tree - I felt fine, despite what the groundies thought I must feel. Had to stop because of the same issue of brash flying 2 gardens away. I'm on my third MEWP now, with same 28mph maximum gust rule. But what applies with it at full height in an open space doesn/t automatically apply with it much lower down. As already said, decide for yourself.

[daltontrees]

2 hours ago, Will C said:

Stop worrying about and expecting the nanny state to answer a simple question. Some trees work in a wind some don’t!

Asses each job and call it as you see fit not as somebody who probably has a degree in the subject but has never climbed a tree dictates to you! 

I’ve climbed up to 60mph winds with gusts well over that that was the exception rather than the rule but 40mph winds are common here and just worked with.  if we stopped every time the was a 19mph or over wind we would work about a week all winter!  

I don't think it's about the nanny state, the question might be  - if you sent an employee or a subby up in strong winds and they got hurt, would the HSE do you? Would your insurers drop you in it?

I've climbed in winds where I could barely hold on. Whole different game if you're on spikes. Some  branch walks just wouldn't be possible in even moderate winds, with swaying stems above you jerking your ropes and the branch bouncing beneath you and the wind knocking you off balance and the extra weight of you on the branch increasing the chance of it giving way und er you.

I think it all comes down to doing a site specific, day-specific risk assessment that weighs up the type of operation with the weather conditions. There can't possibly be one maximum wind speed and one 'working at height'. I've never seen a speed published, and I'd be surprised if one has been that covers all.

[Jamie edwards]

12 minutes ago, daltontrees said:

I don't think it's about the nanny state, the question might be  - if you sent an employee or a subby up in strong winds and they got hurt, would the HSE do you? Would your insurers drop you in it?

 

Agreed, it's totally about HSE, not about wether you can hold on or be a hero dropping tops in 40+mph winds. Quite obviously you can climb in high winds, the same as you can wear chainsaw shorts.. It doesn't mean there isn't legislation in place to suggest otherwise.  And thats what this is about, the legislation, what is it, if any. 

I think the site specific RA covers wind conditions, but what are the parameters, do people have a scale they use?  what is that scale in reference of? Etc. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Jamie edwards

[Mark Bolam]

When your arse starts going 5p-50p it’s time to get down.

 

This will undoubtedly be more accurate than anything the HSE will ever come up with.

[daltontrees]

There you have it, the Analomometer.

[Steven P]

I think that this will be common with a lot of health and safety related things, there is no specified maximum. 

 

Hypothetically, you'd need parameters on that so you can say you conformed with what was written. Imagine it says "8m/s at 5m above ground level at the base of the tree" but what happens if the base of the tree is in a dip, 5m up you are OK, but then 10 up you are out the dip and the wind speed doubles... but you measured according to the words and are OK to go. Do you measure at the work site - the top of the tree - but then you all ready have climbed to confirm it is dangerous to climb.

 

Second comment if it was specified and 'safe' some will go (or be 'asked' to go) but if it's tipping it down, wind says OK (at the top limit say), but with wet or icy branches?

 

Has to come down to a 'competent person' making assessment on site I think with all the variables - which is in common with a lot of HSE things.

[Mark Bolam]

Seriously this would be a nightmare to quantify from HSE’s perspective.

Ridiculous amounts of variables.

 

Some of my worst, but looking back, most enjoyable climbs, were in ridiculous winds trying to deck stuff before expensive shit got broken.

 

I remember my old groundie Stevo screaming at me once on a heaved connie takedown.

Couldn’t hear him for the wind, I just assumed he was telling me to hurry up.

 

It had heaved another foot and totally split from the base up.

 

I was well worth my £120 that day.

 

I’m pretty sure it was @Rich Rule told me if the tail of your rope is blowing at 45 deg it’s time to bail.

If it’s blowing at 90 deg it’s probably too late.

 

If there’s no risk to anything we just pull off and go to the pub, sorry, log yard, now.

 

Or go and flop some stuff where the wind is your friend (rarely happens).