Aerial Rescue Practice

[krummholz]

1 minute ago, Mick Dempsey said:

Sort of, what I’m saying is think hard about what you’re about to do, bearing in mind you’re on your own up there if things go Pete Tong.

OK so expect to self rescue?

 

Wouldn't it be better if there was also a good reasue plan and competent, adequately resourced rescuer?

 

If one of the possible outcomes that you can foresee from the next bit of work you're about to do is death, then maybe the better option is to come down?

[Mick Dempsey]

3 minutes ago, krummholz said:

 

Wouldn't it be better if there was also a good reasue plan and competent, adequately resourced rescuer?

 

 

That would be nice, but in reality that is rarely in place for most outfits.

[krummholz]

12 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

That would be nice, but in reality that is rarely in place for most outfits.

And that's a bad thing, right?

 

How do we make the reality one where more people go home from work uninjured and alive?

 

40 years ago the reality was that people used 3 strand natural fibre ropes and leather belt harnesses with no leg loops, and probably didn't wear chainsaw trousers or even helmets. Techniques, equipment, legislation and guidance have all progressed and safety has improved, and that's a good thing. Things didn't improve by accepting that things were bad or sub optimal.

Edited July 2, 2023 by krummholz

[openspaceman]

2 hours ago, krummholz said:

40 years ago the reality was that people used 3 strand natural fibre ropes and leather belt harnesses with no leg loops, and probably didn't wear chainsaw trousers or even helmets.

Actually that was more than 50 years ago, nylon 3 strand was ubiquitous by 1969 and  natural fibres were not used at all (okay some rock climbers used hemp coils as a waist loop but they were old school). The only leather was on spike straps, chainsaw trousers were not available till around 1980 in UK but I always had the hat, visor and muffs from 1974.

 

I have never known of anyone being aerial rescued in that 50 odd years, known several fatalities in that time though and none of those involved hanging from a harness and needing rescue.

Edited July 2, 2023 by openspaceman
typos

[krummholz]

4 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

Actually that was more than 50 years ago, nylon 3 strand was ubiquitous by 1969 and  natural fibres were not used at all (okay some rock climbers used hemp coils as a waist loop but they were old school). The only leather was on spike straps, chainsaw trousers were not available till around 1980 in UK but I always had the had, vizor and muffs from 1974.

 

I have never known of anyone being aerial rescued in that 50 odd years, known several fatalities in that time though and none of those involved hanging from a harness and needing rescue.

OK I stand corrected on the specifics of the timeline of natural fibre ropes and leather harnesses, but my broader point about safety standards and good practice progressing over time still stands.

 

So anecdotally you've never heard of an aerial rescue taking place, or of a fatality occurring in a rope and harness - that's good, you sound like a lucky person to have around. But both of those things have occured and will continue to occur in the industry, right? As in they're documented and reported (and likely under reported as most accidents and near misses are).

[5thelement]

I’ve worked with a couple of small outfits who would practice aerial rescues in slow weeks and use up all the short dated First Aid stuff practicing their application, although these outfits where very few and far between.

Most Arb firms I’ve worked with don’t do any of this and the contents of their First Aid kits are useless, if they have one at all.

I carry a Cat7 Tourniquet and a celox z fold on my felling belt and harness and rely on my own ability to self administer and self rescue, anything else is a bonus.  

[Sviatoslav Tulin]

90%companies i now can’t afford second climber high calibre enough  to do proper first aid ,I stay quiet about areal rescue situation.In my opinion and i am a military background if you do something every 6 months only once you are useless at it end of story,how many of you can do resusatention right now properly to your son? Or choking situation or do you now stroke simptoms? Loss of limb situation .In Army  first aid remainder lesson 3 hour per week, major training every 4 weeks you shooting less .

[Sviatoslav Tulin]

When I work on the tree rule is simple I must be on the ground in a moment if needed ,ground man calling 112 once I said no questions ask ,or if I am not responding.He is Not allowed to trying to do something ridiculous .

[Steve Bullman]

1 hour ago, Sviatoslav Tulin said:

90%companies i now can’t afford second climber high calibre enough  to do proper first aid ,I stay quiet about areal rescue situation.In my opinion and i am a military background if you do something every 6 months only once you are useless at it end of story,how many of you can do resusatention right now properly to your son? Or choking situation or do you now stroke simptoms? Loss of limb situation .In Army  first aid remainder lesson 3 hour per week, major training every 4 weeks you shooting less .

That about sums it up for me 

[dangb93]

This is an excellent topic, and one that won't hurt for us to consider.

 

I have thought for a long time that having a climber up a tree and a groundsman below who holds aerial rescue but never usually climbs is somewhat lacking in common sense, unless that groundsman can climb as well as the climber themselves. 

 

If something happens to a climber on the end of a limb how is a poorly experienced groundsman going to have a hope of skilfully limb walking out to that climber and bringing him back in?

 

The ideal answer I believe is to have two evenly skilled climbers on the job, one working in the tree and one below on the ground, swapping daily/weekly to keep fresh. Yes and that's why I say ideal. Because for one finding the staff is an issue, and then the cost as well.

 

I think the root of this problem is the overwhelming problem in tree surgery - underpaid industry. Until people place more importance and value on their trees the money is simply not coming out of their pockets so that smaller firms especially can have that level of skill in their staff, and that chance to regularly practice it as the OP says.