How much should an owner of a tree business be on per year?

[Clutchy]

1 hour ago, monkeybusiness said:

What work are you doing to get £2500ish per day every day for a 2 man team out of interest? 

 

We did for example, £49.1k + VAT last month, team of 3 and team of 2, sometimes 1 team of 4 and 1 grinding etc. I float about, do office stuff and jump into a team 2-3 days a week. 

 

That was on 23 working days last month, so average of £2,130 + VAT a day. Definitely not 2.5k per gang, I wish. 

 

To average that you you need to be hitting 3k+ days sometimes to make up for the lower days, we had 2 x 3k+ days that month. 

 

Definitely could of done more if we had more work, boys had quite a few early finishes, but if it keeps them happy I'm more than happy with this amount. 

 

Not sure why everyone is always so coy about talking money on here. Work wise, 30% domestic, 40% buildings sites, remaining was mixed commercial. 

[monkeybusiness]

6 hours ago, Clutchy said:

 

 

I don't think you quite need that much turn over, on £540k + VAT per year on a 2 man team it should still leave £200k ish net profit 

 

@doobin 

[doobin]

28 minutes ago, Clutchy said:

 

We did for example, £49.1k + VAT last month, team of 3 and team of 2, sometimes 1 team of 4 and 1 grinding etc. I float about, do office stuff and jump into a team 2-3 days a week. 

 

That was on 23 working days last month, so average of £2,130 + VAT a day. Definitely not 2.5k per gang, I wish. 

 

To average that you you need to be hitting 3k+ days sometimes to make up for the lower days, we had 2 x 3k+ days that month. 

 

Definitely could of done more if we had more work, boys had quite a few early finishes, but if it keeps them happy I'm more than happy with this amount. 

 

Not sure why everyone is always so coy about talking money on here. Work wise, 30% domestic, 40% buildings sites, remaining was mixed commercial. 

Sounds like you already make pretty good and consistant profit? Out of £2100 per day, how much of that is profit? £1k? Or more like £500? I can feel your pain- you end up thinking, 'Why should I deal with all the stress just for £200 more than a subby?'

 

Perhaps it's time to question whether this is actually scaleble further due to the involvement already required from you. Might it help your mental state to accept this, just for the time being, particularly with the current economic climate? Relax, enjoy the business for the profit it creates you? Possibly invest in some more machinery, so that you can loose a staff member or two if/when needed? Finance payments are considerably less than labour. I'm not sure how mechanised you already or or whether any further machinery would suit your work, so just a suggestion.

[Clutchy]

19 minutes ago, monkeybusiness said:

@doobin 

Thats my bad, meant to of said 2 teams 

[Clutchy]

17 minutes ago, doobin said:

Sounds like you already make pretty good and consistant profit? Out of £2100 per day, how much of that is profit? £1k? Or more like £500? I can feel your pain- you end up thinking, 'Why should I deal with all the stress just for £200 more than a subby?'

 

Perhaps it's time to question whether this is actually scaleble further due to the involvement already required from you. Might it help your mental state to accept this, just for the time being, particularly with the current economic climate? Relax, enjoy the business for the profit it creates you? Possibly invest in some more machinery, so that you can loose a staff member or two if/when needed? Finance payments are considerably less than labour. I'm not sure how mechanised you already or or whether any further machinery would suit your work, so just a suggestion.

 

 

Oh yeah don't worry, I accept tree surgey isn't worth scaling unless you're aiming for 10 plus teams, too much of a me too business. Although from what I can tell through instagram, Thors trees seems to be doing it very well, but it's of no interest to me. I like our set up, just need to keep the work coming in. 

 

I'm happy with 2 gangs, and growing the other business we have which is linked (access hire mewps etc) which is more scalable and only requires 1 person per machine. 

 

In regards profit, our spend that month was £27,800 + VAT all in, so a very good month for profit. Something like £900ish a day 

 

This has been our best month though but its been a trend heading this direction 

[doobin]

10 minutes ago, Clutchy said:

 

 

Oh yeah don't worry, I accept tree surgey isn't worth scaling unless you're aiming for 10 plus teams, too much of a me too business. Although from what I can tell through instagram, Thors trees seems to be doing it very well, but it's of no interest to me. I like our set up, just need to keep the work coming in. 

 

I'm happy with 2 gangs, and growing the other business we have which is linked (access hire mewps etc) which is more scalable and only requires 1 person per machine. 

 

In regards profit, our spend that month was £27,800 + VAT all in, so a very good month for profit. Something like £900ish a day 

 

This has been our best month though but its been a trend heading this direction 

Sounds pretty good. I would be looking to underpin the foundations of your business rather than expand, which it sounds like you are. Be ready to weather the storm.

[AHPP]

Clutchy, Do you do any work for state organs? Councils, state schools etc?

[Clutchy]

15 minutes ago, AHPP said:

Clutchy, Do you do any work for state organs? Councils, state schools etc?

Schools yes, but not that month. 

 

Council no, unless you're the main contractor I've found it to be peanuts, we have worked for 3 in the past. 

 

Some council stuff on framework can be good, the process is arduous, and even so quoting against other tree surgeons who are cheap will ensure you have to be cheaper 🫣

[maybelateron]

On 20/04/2023 at 16:09, Clutchy said:

I feel the more we talk the better it is for all as there are a lot not running it as a business and it could be very helpful for them 

Interesting comment. Do you mean there are some who don't know how to run it as a business efficiently (I didn't think you meant that), or there are some who aren't 100%, or possibly any%, dependent on it to feed themselves, which I think you meant. I am lucky enough to be in the latter group, rather than the former.

[Clutchy]

23 minutes ago, maybelateron said:

Interesting comment. Do you mean there are some who don't know how to run it as a business efficiently (I didn't think you meant that), or there are some who aren't 100%, or possibly any%, dependent on it to feed themselves, which I think you meant. I am lucky enough to be in the latter group, rather than the former.

 

I'm not sure if I misunderstood, but I'm definitely reliant on my business and the wage it pays me to survive. 

 

I kinda meant the more we discuss pricing, running costs etc people may find they could be earning more and perhaps have been selling themselves short 

 

Or for one tree surgeon that a do a bit of basic consulting for, until we sat down and went through daily income sheets + true running costs he didn't realise he was actually running at a slight loss, and was just slowly eating away at the 50k bb loan he got out.