Arb or not to arb?

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

All,

Apologies, I've justed posted a further reply and it's disappeared into the ether (I'll see if Steve can help to recover it as it details proposals we have which I'm sure you'll be interested to hear. If not I'll post again later.)

 

We do seek to be the 'industry representative' body AND to be fully inclusive and we have several (approx. 30%) ACs who are 'small', i.e. less than 5 employees, AND whilst they have to demonstrate compliance with all elements of the standards, as do all, the way in which they do so can vary greatly. Customer contact / care systems is a good example, in a small company this usually all takes place in the owners/managers diary with a mobile phone whereas in a larger company there may be 2 or 3 people involved and a couple of different computer systems...it's 'horses for course', as long as Mrs Miggins gets a return call, a visit and a quote politely and in a reasonable time frame that's all we're after.

 

Gotta dash the day jobs pressing.

Thanks again for asking!

Paul

[John Hancock]

I agree with you entirely, two chaps shouldn’t have to go through the same rigmarole and expenditure as the larger companies’ do, just to get approval.

 

I also agree with you that the AA should look into something like the ISA Cert Arb, however can’t help feeling this is a little daft as there is already a scheme that encourages continued professional development and enables advertising on company vehicles – Its called ISA Cert. Arb.

[Arborist Sites]

Yep John i agree the Cert Arb is already there but if myself and you was to stand at the front gate of an arb show and ask everbody through the gates who was the industry representing body in the UK i bet that 90% + would say the AA.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Hi John, you're absolutely right in that why duplicate things just for the sake of it (thats why we can now award CHAS with AAAC, which in turn has recognition with other H&S accreditations)...however that's not the case with AAAC & ISA Cert. Arborist

 

The key difference between the AC status and the ISA Certified Arborist is that of company practices and compliance etc. as opposed to an individuals qualifications (which is very well recognised and respected in the industry AND personally, one I feel should be recognised higher than NQF level 2 as it is currently.) Hence AAAC is a company accreditation and ISA CA is an individual qualification.

 

The other important thing is that the AAAC scheme carries with it a 'quality assurance' backup for clients with its formal complaints procedure (and which has resulted on sanctions being imposed on ACs, albeit thankfully not that often as we don't receive that many.)

 

This thing gets addictive!

Paul

[Robert_S]

I was once a member of the AA and could never understand why they would not let you use there name in stationary and or vehicle advertising.

it seemed a bit strange to me, i joined the ISA and even as a member i felt you were trusted that they allowed there members to use there name, i then went on to do the ISA cert arb as once again i felt it benefited me as an individual and my company via being able to advertise the fact you were qualified.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Hi Robert, thanks for your post.

Basically it was something of a historical thing, that no-one other than AA Approved Contractors and Registered Consultants were entitled to use the Association's logo and recognised the fact they subjected themselves to rigorous assessment protocols and paid a lot of money (relatively speaking) for the privilege.

However as you quite rightly point out this approach is wholly inconsistent with most other industry organisations and associations who actively encourage use of their logo's to the benefit of both the 'user' and the organisation and raise the awareness and profile of both in so doing.

Hence, I'm pleased to advise this is on the 'agenda', so to speak, and at the BoD/Trustees level for consideration. Obviously though we need to think very carefully about the impact this will have on ACs & RCs and ensure we act accordingly in ensuring we still represent their best interest too.

The ISA Cert. Arb. is indeed very well recognised qualification and will undoubtedly increase your company profile too by displaying such. Indeed the Association included this alongside AAAC in the 'Choose Your Arborist' leaflet we produced (see http://www.trees.org.uk/treework.php)

Cheers..

Paul

Edited February 18, 2010 by AA Teccie (Paul)

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

ALL, sorry to be 'hogging' this subject but I justed wanted to reply to a very good point posted by 'Arborist Sites' earlier to which I did reply but lost it...I T isn't my forte!

Its regarding accessibility to the scheme for smaller companies and what we are doing as this is clearly an obstacle voiced on many occasions.

Principally we are looking to adopt a modular approach to the scheme which will include (probably) 4 modules, broadly speaking:

1. Office procedures & customer care

2. H&S compliance

3. Worksite/workplace audit

4. Work quality audit

...or similar.

The idea being the smaller contractor will be able to attain the scheme in bitesize chunks and achieve modules as they go. All modules to be completed within a 24 month window, for example. This will cost more in the long run, unfortunately, as it will incur extra visits and more admin etc. (poss. £300 per module x4 = £1,200 as opposed to the 'one off' assessment, which will still be available, and currently costs £870)...or something along those lines as the finer details have yet to be developed.

Those fees are a result of the direct cost incurred to the scheme by 2x assessors+expenses+admin etc. and this generates a nominal surplus.

The other key issue we need to also look at here is, is it fair that a larger contractor, with multiple gangs, is subject to the same level of assessment as a smaller contractor running just one gang, as that is what currently happens? Clearly the answer is 'no', as the larger contractor should be subjected to a longer assessment duration and this is something we are also considering.

Lastly there is the possibility of a 'half-fat' approach being developed around the CHAS status we can now award, in that we could posisbly have an AA CHAS contractor who would have completed modules 2&3 above but this may serve to potentially confuse the issue for the client.

Everything is in the 'melting pot' at the moment so if you've any other thoughts or proposals to assist here I'm very keen to hear them...please!

Many thanks for reading this posting..!

Paul

[Mesterh]

The problem I see with AA aproval between small and large firms is that in a small firm the guys/gals getting assesed will be the ones carrying out the work.

 

A large company gets AA aproval and within a a couple of years there staff have turned around and it isnt the same ones who got the approval, I you understand what I'm saying:confused1:

 

There could be a pricing structure so its cheaper for smaller firms but it escalates depending on number of employees because the AA should re asse(sp?) them more often to ensure they are keeping up with good practice etc.

 

It would also hopefully help improve the quality of work in the larger companies which as most of us know is usually at a more poor standard than smaller firms.

 

Reading through my post I realise my standard of grammer is fairly poor, but I'm sure you get my drift

[Danavan]

The other thing here is that those companies who actively market & promote themselves on attainment of AC status do far better in terms of 'new' business generation than those who don't, may sound an obvious comment but my point is it has to be a 'two pronged' attack and, unfortunately those who achieve the status and sit back expecting the calls to come rolling in may have plenty of time for coffee and biccies.

Paul

 

Hi Paul, I fully understand the need for self promotion & that is an integral part of any business & assosiation to keep the message alive. Sitting back & thinking the AA will do the rest is just plane daft.

It,s just that I have been told of some co,s without an AA acreditation are going about with the AA lable on their vans & promotianal paper's with an aparant 'we can't do alot about it responce'. Along with the platform of the bbc prog featuring bad tree wrk that seemed a fantastic way to get the message accross to the masses?

I guess £ is a big factor in alot of problems encountered?

I know these are simple points voiced by a simple person, but I belive our industury is worth far better promotion to the masses from the likes of assosiations like yourselfs. Please feel free to pm me with the put downs ect that you can't put out hear:thumbup1:

Thank you for your responce

[Danavan]

I also agree with you that the AA should look into something like the ISA Cert Arb, however can’t help feeling this is a little daft as there is already a scheme that encourages continued professional development and enables advertising on company vehicles – Its called ISA Cert. Arb.

 

I agree, but for all the ISA do they don't seem to have the same sort of acreditation in the UK that they deserve:confused1: