Will a lot of small domestic tree firms go bust?

[Mark Bolam]

That’s how I used to roll!

 

I bet you did as well Mick!

[Clutchy]

2 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

unsupervised (by you) making decisions based on how quickly they can get home.

Couldn't of said that better. 100% 

[Mick Dempsey]

13 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

1 hour ago, JaySmith said:

Unfortunately I think a number of firms will be lost. In the last three or four years lots of one man bands have cropped up as people either got fed up with working for someone or decided they wanted a bigger slice of the pie. This has always happened, man leaves employment, goes subby climbing while he builds up some clients and gets a truck, chipper etc. This coupled with the amount of finance around has led to people starting up. Finance has never been so readily available or easy to access, you can even finance a rope and karabiner now let alone a £30k truck and £20k chipper, this has allowed lots to start up where as before they may not have had the cash in place to do so. 
 

I think the biggest change maybe that some go back to freelancing to the bigger firms if their own work dries up or they go back on the books at a firm. However if it really does slow down to that extent even the bigger boys may have to streamline and drop crews/lay guys off. There will always be council, highways, rail and commercial work where there is a duty of care but even councils are being squeezed trying to make the sums add up and put round pegs in square holes. The biggest drop off will be the residential market, if Mrs Miggins can’t pay the gas bill then the conifer hedge can wait until next year for a little trim and that reduction can wait. Therefore the firms that do almost all residential and little diversification will suffer. 
 

Variety and a mixed bag of clients will be key, those who have clients across the different areas, residential, commercial, council etc will probably whether the storm better imo. 

Generally agree - but very much share Mick’s Go quick go home mantra. 
 

A healthy dose of ‘not too bothered’ combined with the ability to switch between operations and consultancy works (useful for rainy days anyway) 

 

I am genuinely hoping things do quieten down. I desperately want a bloody good holiday after all the covid nonsense and travel disruption. 
 

Keep your overheads low and there’s nothing to worry about. 

[Mick Dempsey]

18 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

That’s how I used to roll!

 

I bet you did as well Mick!

Well to a certain extent, I only did 18 months in someone else’s van before starting on my own.

I have nothing but admiration for those guys (Clutchy included) who build up a biz sending people out with their own name on the van to do work.

There is a lot to be said for running one profitable gang, with you overseeing every big decision and trousering any folding that comes your way. 

[John Shutler]

4 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

Well to a certain extent, I only did 18 months in someone else’s van before starting on my own.

I have nothing but admiration for those guys (Clutchy included) who build up a biz sending people out with their own name on the van to do work.

There is a lot to be said for running one profitable gang, with you overseeing every big decision and trousering any folding that comes your way. 

that’s pretty much my setup mick. with a bit of consultancy and operated plant hire as well. 

 

ive asked my accountant a number of times over the years if he thought there was any financing benefit to going ltd, he’s not convinced so i’ve always stayed as a sole trader.

 

[Clutchy]

4 minutes ago, John Shutler said:

that’s pretty much my setup mick. with a bit of consultancy and operated plant hire as well. 

 

ive asked my accountant a number of times over the years if he thought there was any financing benefit to going ltd, he’s not convinced so i’ve always stayed as a sole trader.

 

 

Interesting, its probably generic advice that he is giving out to less risky industries. 

 

Given the discussion thus far and ignoring the accountant for a minute, are you happy taking direct financial risk to your personal assets? 

[Mick Dempsey]

7 minutes ago, John Shutler said:

that’s pretty much my setup mick. with a bit of consultancy and operated plant hire as well. 

 

ive asked my accountant a number of times over the years if he thought there was any financing benefit to going ltd, he’s not convinced so i’ve always stayed as a sole trader.

 

My accountant asked me the same question recently, rather half heartedly if I’m honest.

Remember I’m in France, so I’m not sure if the rules are different. We decided not to bother, for reasons I can’t go into on here.

 

Like I said before every single big call is mine alone. 
I dunno, I’m no expert on it (clearly) 

[John Shutler]

2 minutes ago, Clutchy said:

 

Interesting, its probably generic advice that he is giving out to less risky industries. 

 

Given the discussion thus far and ignoring the accountant for a minute, are you happy taking direct financial risk to your personal assets? 

you keep saying it’s a risky industry? 

 

the job is a risky as you make it. personally I try to limit risk as much as possible but you obviously carry out your works differently

 

ive had one claim against me in 15years of running my business and that was 35k for a driveway that was damaged by a crane company. 

 

[Mark Bolam]

Clutchy makes some very valid points, and is almost certainly right on the way forward IF you want to grow.

 

That’s not what everyone wants though, is it?

I’ve been Ltd., VAT registered, big turnover, blah blah blah.

It’s not for me any more.

 

I’m a one man and two dog band and it suits me now.

I work with a bunch of like-minded Sole Traders.

I’m having Monday off to look after my kids, most of the following week to head up to Northumberland to spend time with Mam.

No hassles about finding work for a crew of employees.

 

I’m not chasing big money.

If you are, why are you in arb?

 

There is more to life, much more.

 

I agree some ‘companies’ (however you define it) will be in for hard times.

 

Being mega busy isn’t an excuse to buy loads of shit you don’t need and employ extra crews by my way of thinking.

Just refusing shit jobs, charging decent money (which I know you do btw Clutchy), and being honest about lead times is the way forward for me.

 

My work model definitely won’t work for everyone, different strokes for different folks and all that.

 

Some companies will go under, for sure, big and small.

Knee jerk price cutting will probably be the quickest way of doing it, rather than genuine lack of work.

 

Chalara may well be the silver bullet that means arb can weather the storm better than some trades.

 

Some arb ‘companies’ need kicking into touch anyway.

We’ve done about 6 trees this week that were ‘too big’ for other companies.

 

One of them was knocking on 55’!