Forestry chainsaw operator

[Spruce Pirate]

Rates for woodcutters is a very difficult subject.  I'd agree with a lot of what's been said here before about difficult to get cutters and even more difficult to get good cutters.  Part of the problem is that cutters are self-employed and providing A LOT of kit, saws - probably small, medium and large, wedges, hammers, jacks, first aid kit, PPE, tapes, breaking bars, fuel, oil, bars, chains, chainsaw training, refresher training, log books, first aid training, vehicle to and from work - often miles up rough forest roads which eat vehicles.  Then they're expected to put plenty of timber on the ground, presented well for either the harvester or the forwarder, realistically low stumps, properly sned, cleanly cut to the right lengths.  Start comparing this to other industries and I'd say there's no way a decent cutter should be on any less than £300 a day.

 

The trouble is the industry won't stand it.  Too many people saying £150 a day is all they'll pay and putting up with folk who can't really do the job where if they'd pay more they'd get more done.  Too many "cutters" turning up on site with several things on my list above missing and without the skills to do the job thinking they're worth mega-bucks, which leads to contractors thinking cutters aren't worth the money.  Too many contractors think a cutter just costs them money, seemingly blind to the fact that the cutter is putting timber on the deck which earns money.  Too many jobs costed where the cutting element isn't properly costed, if the industry can stand the fact that an unproductive welfare unit is going to cost a certain amount per ton, or per week or whatever then we should start to think that maybe the cutting element might start to cost as well and enable decent rates to be paid.  Sometimes the timber just isn't there too allow a cutter to produce properly, I did a job in the summer where I was lucky to be getting 60m3 on the deck in a day, small trees, all leaning the wrong way and just a ball ache to fell and be anywhere near productive.  There's more jobs going to have to fall into this category if rates are going to improve.

 

Sawlogs were over £100 a ton a short while ago and cutters and contractors saw basically nothing in return, yet as soon as rates drop we're too expensive.  There needs to be a more equal share of the pie.

 

We also need to get some realistic system of bringing on people who want to do the work, be it young ones entering the industry or tree surgeons looking to diversify.  Again, the costs of these people being un-productive needs to be covered somehow, simply moaning that someone is useless and can't get the job done is very unlikely to get them to progress.  None of us were born knowing how to do everything but the current system, touched on by others in earlier posts breeds cutters who have tickets but not full skills and think they're worth what is currently top-end money.  I think they should be paid that money, but while they're being mentored to become properly skilled cutters and earn proper money for doing so.  Then again, I quite like living in Fantasy-Land..........

[Jig]

On 11/10/2022 at 11:23, spuddog0507 said:

Not been much help on here so far for you, there is a awful lot to be considered here, first what do you call fully certificated ? CS 30,31 ? and what other tickets after them ?, how long you been doing it ? are you fresh out of collage as many a young lad thinks he is the Bs n Es once he has a chainsaw ticket, i have employed young lads fresh out of collage and they are just 1 step up from useless but want £100 £120 a day using my saws n fuel and they cant cut enough timber to pay there wage and thats not good for me, can you use a tape measure and cut to spec as this is one issue with me that i see the younger lads struggling with, from a employers view you need to be cutting a value of timber that is more than your day rate espeicially on a clear fell, i have one lad who is shit hot as he will put 20-25 tonne on the floor in the day on a clear fell, the other lad working 100mts away might do half that, Thinings is different it can be straight forward at times or it can be a pain in the arse, i went and looked at job recently and soon as i walked in to the woodland i just thought i dont want this job, planted in the early 60s at 4ft quite a few dead stems and very poor timber with not much over 12" in dia, told him to clear fell it and start again as thining it would be a night mare as it should of been done 30 yrs ago, where abouts are you located,, 

Thank you for reply. Like you said, not much help so far. I have a solid 6 years of full time forestry chainsaw work, yet the last 2 years my Forestry work has been more relaxed with less chainsaw work, and on the books for a well known forestry organisation. I'm wanting to get back into full time felling work as my current job isn't giving me enough excitement or paying enough. Qualifications, 30&31 plus medium and larger tree. I can use hand winches and have worked alongs side harvesters and forwarders. I can comfortably cut to spec, done everything from small thinnings all the way up to clear fell and worked on hourly, day rate, piece work and tonnage. If the timber allows, I can easily fell, dress out, cross cut and stack 15 - 25 ton a day. And if it's huge mature trees then God knows how many times that would be!  Unfortunately, who I have worked for in the past has never wanted to pay more than £100 a day! And when on tonnage, it's very easy for forwarder loads to go walkies, if you know what I mean!? So I have never, ever made the money I should have, even though working my bollocks off! This is why I will only work for a day rate! Also, the day rate has to help cover all my out goings, PPE, new chainsaws, fuel, holidays, public liability etc.... It seems I am asking for a reasonable price, it's nice to get confirmation from other like minded people. Just putting the feelers out so I can be confident to charge this amount when asking around for work.

 

Cheers 👍🏼

[lurch_917]

On 10/10/2022 at 18:46, Retired Climber said:

How dare you. I'll have you know I have 2 friends, and only one of them is imaginary. 

and the others in the mirror . 😁

[Retired Climber]

8 minutes ago, lurch_917 said:

and the others in the mirror . 😁

Oh come on, if you want to have a dig at me at least check your English. The ambiguity caused by your inability to articulate your point is just embarrassing. 

 

Have another go. 

 

[lurch_917]

36 minutes ago, Retired Climber said:

Oh come on, if you want to have a dig at me at least check your English. The ambiguity caused by your inability to articulate your point is just embarrassing. 

 

Have another go. 

 

im only jealous as you still have more friends than me . 😪

[Retired Climber]

16 minutes ago, lurch_917 said:

im only jealous as you still have more friends than me . 😪

Thank you for taking my post in the spirit it was written. For a forum of hairy arse arbs and foresters there are a lot of delicate flowers, ready to take offence at a moment's notice. 

 

[lurch_917]

11 hours ago, Retired Climber said:

Thank you for taking my post in the spirit it was written. For a forum of hairy arse arbs and foresters there are a lot of delicate flowers, ready to take offence at a moment's notice. 

 

thats ok my posts are all based on 99.9%  just having a laugh and 0.1 % bite back at those who cant have a laugh .

[slack ma girdle]

22 hours ago, Jig said:

Thank you for reply. Like you said, not much help so far. I have a solid 6 years of full time forestry chainsaw work, yet the last 2 years my Forestry work has been more relaxed with less chainsaw work, and on the books for a well known forestry organisation. I'm wanting to get back into full time felling work as my current job isn't giving me enough excitement or paying enough. Qualifications, 30&31 plus medium and larger tree. I can use hand winches and have worked alongs side harvesters and forwarders. I can comfortably cut to spec, done everything from small thinnings all the way up to clear fell and worked on hourly, day rate, piece work and tonnage. If the timber allows, I can easily fell, dress out, cross cut and stack 15 - 25 ton a day. And if it's huge mature trees then God knows how many times that would be!  Unfortunately, who I have worked for in the past has never wanted to pay more than £100 a day! And when on tonnage, it's very easy for forwarder loads to go walkies, if you know what I mean!? So I have never, ever made the money I should have, even though working my bollocks off! This is why I will only work for a day rate! Also, the day rate has to help cover all my out goings, PPE, new chainsaws, fuel, holidays, public liability etc.... It seems I am asking for a reasonable price, it's nice to get confirmation from other like minded people. Just putting the feelers out so I can be confident to charge this amount when asking around for work.

 

Cheers 👍🏼

It sounds like you are ready to start looking for your own work.  You will never make decent money working for other people. If you can build up a  good reputation, then people  will come to you.

Just be mindful of blowing your own trumpet ,  and not able to deliver your promises. I regularly get people with vastly over inflated abilities,  and deliver a big mess.

 

[Big J]

19 minutes ago, slack ma girdle said:

It sounds like you are ready to start looking for your own work.  You will never make decent money working for other people. If you can build up a  good reputation, then people  will come to you.

Just be mindful of blowing your own trumpet ,  and not able to deliver your promises. I regularly get people with vastly over inflated abilities,  and deliver a big mess.

 

 

Isn't that a shame though? I have found it almost impossible over the years to find cutters who were both properly competent and happy to work for someone else. 

 

The issue with running your own business is that inevitably, you end up pulled away from the saws. You're then forced to rely on subcontractors of inconsistent quality and the overall work quality deteriorates. 

 

Really good cutters should be paid really good money. I've paid £240 a day down in Devon (where rates are suppressed) and made good money off the back of those guys. Equally, I have lost money on guys I've paid £80 a day because they've been so bad. 

 

Perhaps some sort of cooperative, profit sharing company would be a way to go. A collective of top notch cutters, machine operators, foresters and timber sellers, working together to do the best job possible where everyone makes a fair and decent wage. So much of the timber industry is driven down to price and price alone. It is (I feel) one of the main reasons there is such inconsistency in the market. Boom and bust.

[Svts]

On 21/10/2022 at 10:31, Jig said:

Thank you for reply. Like you said, not much help so far. I have a solid 6 years of full time forestry chainsaw work, yet the last 2 years my Forestry work has been more relaxed with less chainsaw work, and on the books for a well known forestry organisation. I'm wanting to get back into full time felling work as my current job isn't giving me enough excitement or paying enough. Qualifications, 30&31 plus medium and larger tree. I can use hand winches and have worked alongs side harvesters and forwarders. I can comfortably cut to spec, done everything from small thinnings all the way up to clear fell and worked on hourly, day rate, piece work and tonnage. If the timber allows, I can easily fell, dress out, cross cut and stack 15 - 25 ton a day. And if it's huge mature trees then God knows how many times that would be!  Unfortunately, who I have worked for in the past has never wanted to pay more than £100 a day! And when on tonnage, it's very easy for forwarder loads to go walkies, if you know what I mean!? So I have never, ever made the money I should have, even though working my bollocks off! This is why I will only work for a day rate! Also, the day rate has to help cover all my out goings, PPE, new chainsaws, fuel, holidays, public liability etc.... It seems I am asking for a reasonable price, it's nice to get confirmation from other like minded people. Just putting the feelers out so I can be confident to charge this amount when asking around for work.

 

Cheers 👍🏼

Sounds like you should be asking £180/£200 a day. Although I might add the caveat that you will need to jump around between contractors to maintain it. The trouble with this game is the timber doesn't always allow it. I have great volumns in some patches and crap volumes in others. 

Or buy some machinery and jump up a level in the food chain. Then jump up another level and buy you're own standing and cut, extract and market it yourself. If you have the capital to do the latter then that's where the reall money is. 

Cutting direct for estates should allow you to negotiate dayrate for the worst stuff. Cutting for timber buyers will be a different story, it'll be whatever roadside rate the market will allow...