Telescopic pole pruners for commercial use

[pleasant]

Genuine question. How does your insurance react to you using that 'modified' tool on a customers premises and surely should that cause injury, your public liability will be null and void?

[Retired Climber]

51 minutes ago, pleasant said:

Genuine question. How does your insurance react to you using that 'modified' tool on a customers premises and surely should that cause injury, your public liability will be null and void?

I asked a similar question in the thread regarding modded / ported saws. For me, making a tool more powerful than standard spec would be a concern, especially if staff used the saw. However, general consensus seemed to be that nobody at the HSE knows their backside from their elbow, so crack on. 

[pleasant]

26 minutes ago, Retired Climber said:

I asked a similar question in the thread regarding modded / ported saws. For me, making a tool more powerful than standard spec would be a concern, especially if staff used the saw. However, general consensus seemed to be that nobody at the HSE knows their backside from their elbow, so crack on. 

Bet your bits to a barn dance though, that if hse are called out to an incident that requires their intervention, they will send the guy that does know his backside from his elbow. Big gamble that.Machine non declared modded from factory spec and overridden safety devices. Insurance void and hse case in court rest assured

Edited September 25, 2022 by pleasant

[pleasant]

A couple of examples.

 

If we take in a mower in that has an engine issue, but has a damaged, non functioning or even missing deflector flap, then we either refuse to work on it unless the customer agrees to us replacing or repairing it before returning it to use OR we have to get the customer to sign a disclaimer stating the mower is unfit for use should the machine be returned with the flap in the same state it came to us in. Same goes for electric machines that come in for a simple blade sharpen or replacement if it has damage to the mains cables or switches as we have to flash test all electrical machines after we have 'touched' it. So we either don't take it in, if we do we have to ensure it passes a flash test or we issue a disclaimer stating it is unsafe to use and the customer is aware of this.

 

damaged decks, missing exhaust guards all need addressing even though the machine may not be in for a repair to that area. Even bits of rope or similar to override bail bars on mower handles...all have to be removed before handing back to customers.

Edited September 25, 2022 by pleasant

[Retired Climber]

6 minutes ago, pleasant said:

A couple of examples.

 

If we take in a mower in that has an engine issue, but has a damaged, non functioning or even missing deflector flap, then we either refuse to work on it unless the customer agrees to us replacing or repairing it before returning it to use OR we have to get the customer to sign a disclaimer stating the mower is unfit for use should the machine be returned with then flap in the same state it came to us in. Same goes for electric machines that come in for a simple blade sharpen or replacement if it has damage to the mains cables or switches as we have to flash test all electrical machines after we have 'touched' it. so we eith dont take it in, if we do we have to ensure it passes a flash test or we issue a disclaimer stating it is unsafe to use and the customer is aware of this.

 

damaged decks, missing exhaust guards all need addressing even though the machine may not be in for a reapir to that area. even, bits of rope or similar to override bail bars on mower handles...all have to be removed before handing back to customers.

With respect, if a bloke in a garden machinery shop tried to tell me how to use my machinery, he'd get a fairly blunt response. 

 

Having said that, I do appreciate that you need to cover your own backside, just incase the proverbial hits the fan. 

[pleasant]

37 minutes ago, Retired Climber said:

With respect, if a bloke in a garden machinery shop tried to tell me how to use my machinery, he'd get a fairly blunt response. 

 

Having said that, I do appreciate that you need to cover your own backside, just in case the proverbial hits the fan. 

I am assuming you are looking at that from a pro user point of view? I am relating predominately to domestic users who need guidance, and that is why the majority come to us in the first place- for help and advice. However public liability and HSE do not affect them, but customer user safety does. If we let a machine go out whether domestic or pro use, knowing it would fail manufacturer safety standards and HSE standard for a pro user, then we are obligated to inform the end user as such, and like I say either ensure it does conform or a disclaimer is signed. If you gave me a 'blunt response' for informing you your machine is not safe to use (which is my legal and insurance liability obligation) Then I would think you were some sort of idiot- particularly for knowingly to continue to want to use a machine which was unsafe. We don't fit new chains to saws for the same reason. If a customer comes in with their saw and asks for a new chain for it, we are happy to supply the chain, but we decline to fit it if asked, on the grounds that once we touch that machine we are liable. A new chain needs re-tensioning shortly after doing several cuts (as I am sure you know) If we fit it, and the customer doesn't re-tension it as he should and it flies off....we perceivably could be liable for injury or damage as we fitted it originally and the customer can play dumb about us telling him to re-tension it to save his skin after an incident

 

I appreciate you may think it, but telling us you don't agree with it is irrelevant.

Edited September 25, 2022 by pleasant

[GarethM]

I don't think he actually said how to use your machine, that is upto you obviously.

 

He can supply you parts but cannot touch the machine in any way shape or form, that's probably a grey area but wouldn't be culpable in the event of it hitting the fan.

[Retired Climber]

18 minutes ago, pleasant said:

I am assuming you are looking at that from a pro user point of view? I am relating predominately to domestic users who need guidance, and that is why the majority come to us in the first place- for help and advice. However public liability and HSE do not affect them, but customer user safety does. If we let a machine go out whether domestic or pro use, knowing it would fail manufacturer safety standards and HSE standard for a pro user, then we are obligated to inform the end user as such, and like I say either ensure it does conform or a disclaimer is signed. If you gave me a 'blunt response' for informing you your machine is not safe to use (which is my legal and insurance liability obligation) Then I would think you were some sort of idiot- particularly for knowingly to continue to want to use a machine which was unsafe. We don't fit new chains to saws for the same reason. If a customer comes in with their saw and asks for a new chain for it, we are happy to supply the chain, but we decline to fit it if asked, on the grounds that once we touch that machine we are liable. A new chain needs re-tensioning shortly after doing several cuts (as I am sure you know) If we fit it, and the customer doesn't re-tension it as he should and it flies off....we perceivably could be liable for injury or damage as we fitted it originally and the customer can play dumb about us telling him to re-tension it to save his skin after an incident

 

I appreciate you may think it, but telling us you don't agree with it is irrelevant.

I completely agree with what you are saying, and realise you can't really do it any other way without leaving yourself wide open to problems. 

 

My position is that I have a lot of professional tools and equipment that I now only use for occasional domestic use. I've had and used this stuff for many years; some of it is a little past it's best, but if I took something in for repair I'd be telling the shop what I wanted them to do, I wouldnt be looking for advice regarding it's safe use. 

[pleasant]

5 hours ago, Retired Climber said:

I completely agree with what you are saying, and realise you can't really do it any other way without leaving yourself wide open to problems. 

 

My position is that I have a lot of professional tools and equipment that I now only use for occasional domestic use. I've had and used this stuff for many years; some of it is a little past it's best, but if I took something in for repair I'd be telling the shop what I wanted them to do, I wouldnt be looking for advice regarding it's safe use. 

Yup, that would be fine, and we would book it in under that basis, but if you have taped up a secondary micro switch to enable you to use it one handed or a deflector flap spring is missing so it doesn't close then we would either suggest we fix those issues while we fix it for the initial repair, not take it in, in the first place if the operator starts 'telling us we are wrong' or advise the customer we will hand it back 'as is' but sign a disclaimer. No one is advising someone HOW to use a machine if they don't need advice, but I repeat....we are liable if we don't inform the customer his/her machine is unsafe to use upon return.

 

You wouldn't believe what we get asked to do to machinery that is clearly unsafe.....asked to remove a chainbrake lever because it keeps clicking on....fit ANY blade to a mower as long as it will fit in the cutter deck . Remove bail arms on mowers so engine doesn't cut out when emptying grassbox....get the picture?

 

No one is dictating to a customer, no one is being awkward, but sometimes customers do need a safety reality check. And lets be honest WHY would you want to continue to use a machine once an expert has told you it"s unsafe to use? If my garage told me my cars brakes could fail at any time, i wouldn't give them a 'blunt response' but either act on it or ignore it at my cost.

 

People today are very quick and happy to blame others when it all goes wrong I'm afraid and its called CYA. Cover your ****.

 

Hope that makes some sense.

Edited September 25, 2022 by pleasant

[Retired Climber]

34 minutes ago, pleasant said:

Yup, that would be fine, and we would book it in uder that basis, but if you have taped up a secondary micro switch to enable you to use it one handed or a deflector flap spring is missing so it doesn"t close then we would either suggest we fix those issues while we fix it for the initial repair, not take it in, in the first place if the operator starts 'telling us we are wrong' or advise the customer we will hand it back as is but sign a disclaimer. No one is advising someone HOW to use a machine if they dont need advise, but I repeat....we are liable if we dont inform the customer his/her machine is unsafe to use upon return.

 

You woudn't believe what we get asked to do to machinery that is clearly unsafe.....asked to remove a chainbrake lever because it keeps clicking on....fit ANY blade to a mower as long as its will fit in the cutter . Remove bail arms on mowers so engine doesnt cut out when emptying grassbox....get the picture?

 

No one is dictating to a customer, no one is being awkward, but sometimes customers do need a safety reality check. And lets be honest WHY would you want to continue to use a machine once an expert has told you it"s unsafe to use? If my garage told me my cars brakes could fail at any time, i wouldnt give them a 'blunt response' but either act on it or ignore it at my cost.

 

People today are very quick and happy to blame others when it all goes wrong I'm afraid and its called CYA. Cover your ****.

 

Hope that makes some sense.

All fair points. I think the difference between real life and talking to a stranger on a forum is that we have no relationship. The guys I use have known me for over 20 years; if something was a big dodgy on one of my machines they would probably mention it, but wouldn't have me signing disclaimers. They'd also let me walk out with an arm full of top handle saws, even though I don't technically have relevant qualifications to buy them any more.