Do Not send your lads out Monday and Tuesday.

[Puffingbilly413]

27 minutes ago, Joe Newton said:

Sorry for the curt response. To be clear in a freelancer, so to some extent I make my own choices.

 

In my experience (and its strictly personal) I feel that the added risk of heat exhaustion far outweighs the benefit of saw protection.

 

In over 12 years I've perhaps touched myself with a chain twice. Very minor both times. Neither time was the front of my leg where the protection is.

 

I'd much rather stay cool and work safely than be too hot and have to rely on my ppe.

 

I wouldn't advise it for a lot of guys that are a bit more "accident prone"

Yep can't argue with that Joe.

 

I was probably being overly obtuse in my response too.

 

I've had many arguments over the years - in this line of work and others - re the burden of PPE v the ability of the operator to get the job done unhindered.

 

Like you say - you weigh it up based on your experience of the job.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Puffingbilly413
Repeating myself

[Thesnarlingbadger]

20 minutes ago, Joe Newton said:

Sorry for the curt response. To be clear in a freelancer, so to some extent I make my own choices.

 

In my experience (and its strictly personal) I feel that the added risk of heat exhaustion far outweighs the benefit of saw protection.

 

In over 12 years I've perhaps touched myself with a chain twice. Very minor both times. Neither time was the front of my leg where the protection is.

 

I'd much rather stay cool and work safely than be too hot and have to rely on my ppe.

 

I wouldn't advise it for a lot of guys that are a bit more "accident prone"

I do agree with you Joe. To an extent. The issue is not that you probably won’t cut yourself and believe me I have never had a near miss next to my leg ever but from an business owners point of view if the accident did happen when you didn’t have chainsaw trousers on it would be a HSE dream. I called a job off tomorrow because I don’t think it’s fair to make the lads where full kit in this heat but have rebooked in a load of trimming on Tuesday so they can wear shorts all day.

 I’m not having a go I’m just saying from my point of view I’d be panicking all day that there would be an accident and I wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.

 Not only that I use my knees all the time to climb trees and they would be pretty battered if I wasn’t wearing chainsaw trousers. 

[drinksloe]

Must admit i thought ur post was a wind up.

 

I'm amazed anyone lets u climb up a tree with a chainsaw in shorts, fair enough if u just went up with a silky.

I get where ur coming from but didnae think with stuff like that there was any room for choosing ur PPE

 

Last summer it was real hot with us hi 20's, to mid 30's for ages,  litre of OJ on drive, was carrying 7 litres of water in every day and drinking the lot and hardly pissing all day.

And dry as a nun by time got back to van, on way home 1st shop was a juice and lolly stop

Job was a nightmare big timber on top of a steep hill 1/2+ mile from van, carrying sledge wedges 30T bottle jack, saw and brimmed combi.

Wot made it worse the boss wouldn't always send u back the next day so was a gamble to leave ur saw, sledge and jack up the hill or not.

 

Must admit even in the heat i was wearing long sleve t shirt but more to stop the clegs biting and getting covered in resin up ur arms.

And i'm 1 of the rare folk that still wears a rain thingy on my helmet all the time, stops the sun burning the back of ur neck

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

52 minutes ago, Puffingbilly413 said:

Seem to remember you spent a bit of time in Basra? I remember the temp hitting 40 in April and didn't stop going up until it hit 50 - shade temp - in Jun. We read 60 in the sun by the front gate. 

 

Now I cry if it's 23.

Basra, Umm Qasr and Baghdad - plan to go back at some point. Met some genuinely great people there.  Still in touch with some. 

[Joe Newton]

15 minutes ago, Thesnarlingbadger said:

I do agree with you Joe. To an extent. The issue is not that you probably won’t cut yourself and believe me I have never had a near miss next to my leg ever but from an business owners point of view if the accident did happen when you didn’t have chainsaw trousers on it would be a HSE dream. I called a job off tomorrow because I don’t think it’s fair to make the lads where full kit in this heat but have rebooked in a load of trimming on Tuesday so they can wear shorts all day.

 I’m not having a go I’m just saying from my point of view I’d be panicking all day that there would be an accident and I wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.

 Not only that I use my knees all the time to climb trees and they would be pretty battered if I wasn’t wearing chainsaw trousers. 

I get where you're coming from. I don't tend to advertise my lack of ppe in hot weather, no point rubbing the boss's nose in it.

 

The climbing trousers i wear are made by a popular ppe company and look almost identical 🤣 what they don't know won't worry them. 

 

My knees do take a bit of battering, but it's a worthy trade off. Bullman will be along soon to make a joke about that. 

8 minutes ago, drinksloe said:

Must admit i thought ur post was a wind up.

 

I'm amazed anyone lets u climb up a tree with a chainsaw in shorts, fair enough if u just went up with a silky.

I get where ur coming from but didnae think with stuff like that there was any room for choosing ur PPE

 

Last summer it was real hot with us hi 20's, to mid 30's for ages,  litre of OJ on drive, was carrying 7 litres of water in every day and drinking the lot and hardly pissing all day.

And dry as a nun by time got back to van, on way home 1st shop was a juice and lolly stop

Job was a nightmare big timber on top of a steep hill 1/2+ mile from van, carrying sledge wedges 30T bottle jack, saw and brimmed combi.

Wot made it worse the boss wouldn't always send u back the next day so was a gamble to leave ur saw, sledge and jack up the hill or not.

 

Must admit even in the heat i was wearing long sleve t shirt but more to stop the clegs biting and getting covered in resin up ur arms.

And i'm 1 of the rare folk that still wears a rain thingy on my helmet all the time, stops the sun burning the back of ur neck

It's not a case of being allowed, if someone wants to dictate how I work then they want an employee, not a freelancer.

 

Think about it. Ppe can be almost completely replaced by common sense and experience. Most chainsaw accidents in climbers are to the upper body where there's no mandatory protection.

 

It's one of them. If I fuck up it's on me. Not recommending it to anyone else. 

[Steve Bullman]

10 minutes ago, Joe Newton said:

I get where you're coming from. I don't tend to advertise my lack of ppe in hot weather, no point rubbing the boss's nose in it.

 

The climbing trousers i wear are made by a popular ppe company and look almost identical 🤣 what they don't know won't worry them. 

 

My knees do take a bit of battering, but it's a worthy trade off. Bullman will be along soon to make a joke about that. 

It's not a case of being allowed, if someone wants to dictate how I work then they want an employee, not a freelancer.

 

Think about it. Ppe can be almost completely replaced by common sense and experience. Most chainsaw accidents in climbers are to the upper body where there's no mandatory protection.

 

It's one of them. If I fuck up it's on me. Not recommending it to anyone else. 

The reality of it is it’s probably not on you Joe. If the has got involved you would be treated like an employee and the boss would take the brunt. Only possible way round this may be with a risk assessment stating why you weren’t wearing ppe. Even then im Not sure it would hold.

 

for the record I agree with you regarding wearing chainsaw trousers in the heat, and am also guilty of wearing ‘stealth chainsaw trousers’ in the past 

[Mesterh]

Maybe just pick your jobs for the next couple of days, wear some suntan lotion, take breaks more often and drink plenty of water.

 

By Wednesday we will all be complaining about the rain.

[drinksloe]

I've climbed the odd tree for myself just in normal trousers and cut firewood as well without PPE.

I do get where ur coming from. But very different story on ur own ground

 

I'm just surprised any boss would allow it no matter how good a climber u are.

Sure as sh~t his lesser climbers will all be trying it next even thou they don't have ur skill or experience.

I bet if boys went past ur site and seen u climbing in shorts photos would be up on here claiming ur a cowboy/caravan dweeler working with no PPE

 

But even as a SE forestry cutter  absolutely NO site would let u anywhere near if u weren't fully PPE'd up to eyeballs.

Even in the heat i wouldnae dream of not putting them on.

Plus if something did happen they're woud be hell to pay and no other contravctor would take u on either

 

I've had 2 pairs of cutting trousers condemned now by foresters, don't get me wrong the outer layer was ripped all over and badly stiched in places but the inside layer ( with kevlar?) inside was completely untouched.( Touch wood i'm like u never been near nicking myself or trousers, yet! But i bet everyone says that just before they cut themselves)

I still think it was unfair to condemn them just because they looked  a mess

 

Some sites foresters will check the date on ur hats and ur 1st aid kits .

 

Must admit with modern chainsaw trousers there far lighter now than they ever have been, i dinae really mind wearing tem even in the heat.

And working with sticky jaggy softwoods the protection gives u a bit of protection from the needles anyway

 

Many years ago i had a bust up on a gas pipeline, there policy for some reason is everyone must waer a boiler suit at all times with sleves rolled down.

I was climbing taking limbs of and felling plus some bat work at the time.

Was madness to insist i wore a boiler suit on top of all my climbing gear

[Joe Newton]

3 minutes ago, Steve Bullman said:

The reality of it is it’s probably not on you Joe. If the has got involved you would be treated like an employee and the boss would take the brunt. Only possible way round this may be with a risk assessment stating why you weren’t wearing ppe. Even then im Not sure it would hold.

 

for the record I agree with you regarding wearing chainsaw trousers in the heat, and am also guilty of wearing ‘stealth chainsaw trousers’ in the past 

Yeah I know how it would go down if something went wrong mate. That's why I don't make it obvious to whoever I'm in for.

 

If it came to an investigation there will always be non compliance. No risk assesment, no two ropes, refresher training etc. I've long since stopped worrying about all that. Just look after your self and try and avoid any unwanted attention. 

2 minutes ago, Mesterh said:

Maybe just pick your jobs for the next couple of days, wear some suntan lotion, take breaks more often and drink plenty of water.

 

By Wednesday we will all be complaining about the rain.

Or just have a couple of days off. If you can do it for snow, wind and rain, you can do it for intolerable heat. If you can't afford to cancel the occasional day, your probably not running an efficient business.

 

That's not aimed at you Mark,, I'm sure you can still maintain your level of service whatever the weather 👍

[Sviatoslav Tulin]

Are you all dieing from hunger, or something, take few days off lads, won't hurt you in long term, I fixing my van, and servicing tools next two days, maybe split few rounds in the morning or f that, will have a beer in the back garden, if you can't afford few days off, you obviously doing something wrong I think, maybe it just me.