Choosing a saw...

[spuddog0507]

35 minutes ago, john87 said:

Hi All,

 

Ok, so what did i do...

 

Well, first off, i listened to what all of you said. One thing learnt was the rule about whatever bar length you want, requires about 3 times the cc's to pull it, properly and it had been pointed out that it is best to go with the "middle size" bar of the options you get, so i had something to go on now..

 

It was explained by your good selves, that a 60cc saw with a 20" bar would be a good combination.

 

With the make i chose [more on that later] the 60cc saw was less than a pound lighter than the 73cc version, so that gave me more to think about too..

 

So, what did i decide to do??

 

Well, i was torn between Stihl and Echo. I handled an MS50I and very nice it was too, but a bit expensive for a saw that i will not see use much anyway.

 

Remember, i only do what i do, out of well, not a debt to society, [i have not been to jail or anything!!] but what i do does benefit others, greatly i suppose and society in general too, so call it charitable work.

 

Anyway, I had a look at a Stihl MS462 as well, and these were just as nice and the price was not bad either for the quality of saw, so it came down to what did i think i would have the least trouble with..

 

Now, i have three Echo saws already, and these have all been faultless. Another thing i noticed that was if i googled "problems with Stihl MSXXX" there were loads of posts, and a LOAD of people saying that the Stihl warranty service was not good with them mostly not wanting to help.

 

On the other hand, you google "problems with Echo CS-XXX" and there is next to nothing.. I would think that most of the Stihl fuelling or starting problems you here about are people putting mucky fuel in them, but there was still a general sense that Stihl are not too interested once they have sold you the thing. There are loads of posts on this forum concerning that sort of thing..

 

I had also read posts on this forum about people that had broke the bar stud on CS-2511's and the Echo dealers it seemed, did all they could to help.. So based on my own experiences and the reputation of Echo looking after you once you had bought one, Echo it was.. But which one??

 

I had taken on board the idea of say, a 20" bar needs 60cc, so i was going to get a CS-621SX, indeed, members of the forum had said that a 24" bar on a 60cc saw might be a bit much, so when i saw that the bigger 73cc model was less that a pound heavier, than the 60cc, i thought that for such a small weight difference, i might as well get the bigger saw, as that would pull a 24" bar [which is what i wanted] no problem at all.. Soooo...

 

I checked, and "Forest and Arb" of Winchester told me that they had A CS-7310 in stock with a 24" bar, so off i went 120 miles to get it. They did say that they did next day free delivery and could do this no problem, but i thought i might as well have a day out!!

 

I got there and i saw one on display, but it turned out to be a 28" one. They went to get the 24" one they had, but someone had taken the bar out of the box, and not told the chap i had arranged all this with [i think they were the manager] who was not best pleased at all..

 

So, as i had come a long way, they tried their best, they really did..

 

They gave me a very good discount on the 28" one, and they are going to order a 24" bar for me, and do it at not much more than cost, so you cannot say fairer than that. I might see if i can get the 20" bar instead though, might as well if i already have a 28"

 

They were very very helpful and their shop is very well stocked too with PILES of climbing stuff, definitely well worth a look..

 

So, the saw itself?? Well, a big heavy thing as is to be expected, with a very solid and sturdy feel to it too.

 

A 25" Stihl MS462 felt lighter overall, but there was not much in it [about 1.5 pounds according to the spec sheets] although the Echo felt slightly front heavy too compared to the Stihl, but then, it had a 28" solid bar on it, instead of a 25" lightweight one, so i suppose you would expect this.

 

The Echo build quality seems very good though, a well solid feel to it as i say. You get the impression that you will not break it in a hurry..

 

So, what does it run like??

 

My saw had never been run before it seems, as no traces of petrol smell or oil in it at all, and, as i had fuel with me, and oil too, so i checked it over, adjusted the chain, and filled it with fuel and oil in a layby on the side of the road to "try it out" as it were.

 

It fired up after about 5 pulls, which i thought was very good for something that had never even run before.

 

I JUST managed to resist the temptation to cut down some trees on the side of the road for fun, but the saw sounded great, just revving it gently up and down to help run it in, with the chain oiler working fine too. After a few minutes i thought i would see what it is like to start hot. Once again, easy, one pull and it fires up.. Whether you hold it with the saw between your legs [you know what i mean!!] or drop start it, it starts very easily..

 

If you want a very solid feeling saw, with bags of power, no funny electronics to go wrong, AND a great reputation for reliability and dealer backup, you could do a LOT worse than buy an Echo..

 

So, in the next week it will have its first outing, sawing up a 2 foot diameter silver birch, so i will be sure to post back and tell you how the thing performed!!

 

john..

one or two points i dont really agree with here, how many saws do Echo sell ? and how many saws do Stihl sell ? i think the sale numbers will be miles apart with Stihl selling a lot more than Echo so there are bound to be more problems posted about Stihl, the quote you make about Stihl dealers not helping with warranty ? simple reason for that is some one askes there local dealer for a price on a saw and its £30 more than buying it on line from a shop 200mile away, they buy on line and them take to local dealer to get fixed under warranty, Ok dealer has to fix it but it dont say when in the warranty, if i was a Stihl dealer and this happened the said saw would just be put on the list and have to wait its turn,, One thing i have lern,t over the years is dont piss your local dealer off, i but saws from 2 local shops and the saw goes back to the one it was bought from and the service has all wats been very good, like drop it in on way home and ready to collect day after at dinner, As for mtronic and the injection system giving problems and being junk, it sounds like you been reeding on the Stihl fans page on face ache ? had several mtronic saws and only ever had a problem with one and that was a very early Ms241 with mtronic, it was all sorted in a short space of time and only ever gave one more problem after that and that was a fuel solenoid but when saw was collected i was given the print out from dealer and the saw had done 460 odd hrs, so given that 460 hrs on a small saw in commercial forestry work with only 2 problems over 4 yrs i dont think is to bad really, The 500i well i know lads who work them saws 5/6 days a wk putting 7/8 ltrs of fuel a day through them and i only know of one that had a problem but i and others just think the problem was down to the bellend owner who has a awful habit of not concentrating on what he is doing and the times we have seen him fueling up and putting chain oil in both tanks, says it all i think,,

[john87]

4 hours ago, spuddog0507 said:

one or two points i dont really agree with here, how many saws do Echo sell ? and how many saws do Stihl sell ? i think the sale numbers will be miles apart with Stihl selling a lot more than Echo so there are bound to be more problems posted about Stihl, the quote you make about Stihl dealers not helping with warranty ? simple reason for that is some one askes there local dealer for a price on a saw and its £30 more than buying it on line from a shop 200mile away, they buy on line and them take to local dealer to get fixed under warranty, Ok dealer has to fix it but it dont say when in the warranty, if i was a Stihl dealer and this happened the said saw would just be put on the list and have to wait its turn,, One thing i have lern,t over the years is dont piss your local dealer off, i but saws from 2 local shops and the saw goes back to the one it was bought from and the service has all wats been very good, like drop it in on way home and ready to collect day after at dinner, As for mtronic and the injection system giving problems and being junk, it sounds like you been reeding on the Stihl fans page on face ache ? had several mtronic saws and only ever had a problem with one and that was a very early Ms241 with mtronic, it was all sorted in a short space of time and only ever gave one more problem after that and that was a fuel solenoid but when saw was collected i was given the print out from dealer and the saw had done 460 odd hrs, so given that 460 hrs on a small saw in commercial forestry work with only 2 problems over 4 yrs i dont think is to bad really, The 500i well i know lads who work them saws 5/6 days a wk putting 7/8 ltrs of fuel a day through them and i only know of one that had a problem but i and others just think the problem was down to the bellend owner who has a awful habit of not concentrating on what he is doing and the times we have seen him fueling up and putting chain oil in both tanks, says it all i think,,

Yes that is all fair enough what you say, all valid points.. Funnily enough, the first saw i ever used, must be 40 years ago now, was a stihl, and now, it is still going!! Ok, not very well, but that is the owners fault. It wants a new fuel cap, possibly a bar, a chain and the rest just cleaning up and it would be fine..

 

john..

[john87]

Just for clarity, i do not want people running away with the idea that i think any particular make of saw is not too clever, they all have good and bad points, for example, if i knew that today i were going to be forced to go and saw up 20" diameter tree trunks all day, there would only be one saw, obviously a Stihl MS50i as it is the lightest of them all and the most powerful too, so presumably fastest, and the thing has a lovely balance.

 

It is just after having thought a lot, and having had good experiences in the past, an Echo seemed right for ME.

 

Not saying it would be right for everyone.. in the way that you might have wanted a 2 litre Mk3 cortina, but i might have decided that an 1800 Marina TC was better [B series much better engine than the pinto you see!!] or that a norton was a better motor bike than a triumph.. Saying that, a triumph 2.5 PI or a rover 3.5. Proper cars them!!

 

john..

[coppice cutter]

6 hours ago, john87 said:

Hi All,

 

Ok, so what did i do...

 

Well, first off, i listened to what all of you said. One thing learnt was the rule about whatever bar length you want, requires about 3 times the cc's to pull it, properly and it had been pointed out that it is best to go with the "middle size" bar of the options you get, so i had something to go on now..

 

It was explained by your good selves, that a 60cc saw with a 20" bar would be a good combination.

 

With the make i chose [more on that later] the 60cc saw was less than a pound lighter than the 73cc version, so that gave me more to think about too..

 

So, what did i decide to do??

 

Well, i was torn between Stihl and Echo. I handled an MS50I and very nice it was too, but a bit expensive for a saw that i will not see use much anyway.

 

Remember, i only do what i do, out of well, not a debt to society, [i have not been to jail or anything!!] but what i do does benefit others, greatly i suppose and society in general too, so call it charitable work.

 

Anyway, I had a look at a Stihl MS462 as well, and these were just as nice and the price was not bad either for the quality of saw, so it came down to what did i think i would have the least trouble with..

 

Now, i have three Echo saws already, and these have all been faultless. Another thing i noticed that was if i googled "problems with Stihl MSXXX" there were loads of posts, and a LOAD of people saying that the Stihl warranty service was not good with them mostly not wanting to help.

 

On the other hand, you google "problems with Echo CS-XXX" and there is next to nothing.. I would think that most of the Stihl fuelling or starting problems you here about are people putting mucky fuel in them, but there was still a general sense that Stihl are not too interested once they have sold you the thing. There are loads of posts on this forum concerning that sort of thing..

 

I had also read posts on this forum about people that had broke the bar stud on CS-2511's and the Echo dealers it seemed, did all they could to help.. So based on my own experiences and the reputation of Echo looking after you once you had bought one, Echo it was.. But which one??

 

I had taken on board the idea of say, a 20" bar needs 60cc, so i was going to get a CS-621SX, indeed, members of the forum had said that a 24" bar on a 60cc saw might be a bit much, so when i saw that the bigger 73cc model was less that a pound heavier, than the 60cc, i thought that for such a small weight difference, i might as well get the bigger saw, as that would pull a 24" bar [which is what i wanted] no problem at all.. Soooo...

 

I checked, and "Forest and Arb" of Winchester told me that they had A CS-7310 in stock with a 24" bar, so off i went 120 miles to get it. They did say that they did next day free delivery and could do this no problem, but i thought i might as well have a day out!!

 

I got there and i saw one on display, but it turned out to be a 28" one. They went to get the 24" one they had, but someone had taken the bar out of the box, and not told the chap i had arranged all this with [i think they were the manager] who was not best pleased at all..

 

So, as i had come a long way, they tried their best, they really did..

 

They gave me a very good discount on the 28" one, and they are going to order a 24" bar for me, and do it at not much more than cost, so you cannot say fairer than that. I might see if i can get the 20" bar instead though, might as well if i already have a 28"

 

They were very very helpful and their shop is very well stocked too with PILES of climbing stuff, definitely well worth a look..

 

So, the saw itself?? Well, a big heavy thing as is to be expected, with a very solid and sturdy feel to it too.

 

A 25" Stihl MS462 felt lighter overall, but there was not much in it [about 1.5 pounds according to the spec sheets] although the Echo felt slightly front heavy too compared to the Stihl, but then, it had a 28" solid bar on it, instead of a 25" lightweight one, so i suppose you would expect this.

 

The Echo build quality seems very good though, a well solid feel to it as i say. You get the impression that you will not break it in a hurry..

 

So, what does it run like??

 

My saw had never been run before it seems, as no traces of petrol smell or oil in it at all, and, as i had fuel with me, and oil too, so i checked it over, adjusted the chain, and filled it with fuel and oil in a layby on the side of the road to "try it out" as it were.

 

It fired up after about 5 pulls, which i thought was very good for something that had never even run before.

 

I JUST managed to resist the temptation to cut down some trees on the side of the road for fun, but the saw sounded great, just revving it gently up and down to help run it in, with the chain oiler working fine too. After a few minutes i thought i would see what it is like to start hot. Once again, easy, one pull and it fires up.. Whether you hold it with the saw between your legs [you know what i mean!!] or drop start it, it starts very easily..

 

If you want a very solid feeling saw, with bags of power, no funny electronics to go wrong, AND a great reputation for reliability and dealer backup, you could do a LOT worse than buy an Echo..

 

So, in the next week it will have its first outing, sawing up a 2 foot diameter silver birch, so i will be sure to post back and tell you how the thing performed!!

 

john..

Good thought process and (it would appear) a good outcome.

 

Hope it works out OK for you, and given the Echo reputation for reliability one would trust that it will.

[john87]

1 minute ago, coppice cutter said:

Good thought process and (it would appear) a good outcome.

 

Hope it works out OK for you, and given the Echo reputation for reliability one would trust that it will.

Thank you!!

 

john..

[AHPP]

What’s your charity work?

[john87]

3 minutes ago, AHPP said:

What’s your charity work?

I am involved with a large site of about 60 acres with many buildings. It has all been sadly neglected for the last 30 odd years owing largely to a lack of money.. These people have been good to me in the past [still are] so i try to do what i can, especially as i have been involved with the place for 47 years this year.. It all costs me a lot of money, but better than spending it in a pub or on old motorbikes!!

 

In return, i have learnt a lot and get an awful lot of satisfaction from what i do.. I do a lot more than mess about with trees mind that is a fairly new thing, but i am learning and saving the poor building from TERRIBLE damage caused by damp. Only an idiot would plant trees 8 or 10 feet away from a building..

 

I have to remove a few trees in the next few months [i did the leaning birch] For some reason root rot seems very popular and i have no idea why this is, but there are trees in danger of collapsing if they are left..

 

After that, it is up with the scaffolding and clear out the gutters, oh and wash out some drains [wonderful things fire hydrants!] I get all the fun jobs.. [not!!]

 

john..

[AHPP]

Is it an old hospital?

[john87]

15 minutes ago, AHPP said:

Is it an old hospital?

Certainly is.. A wonderful place left to go to ruin.. so much could be done,  and for so little, if only people could be bothered. They spend MILLIONS on "experts" to try to tell them how to improve the patients "experience" if you like and money is wasted like water. I could tell them for nothing, all they have to do is to put everything back as it was 50 years ago..

 

I do what i can and have done well for one man. There is a lot more i want to try to get done this year. I have to get my building site dumper up and running so as to be able to transport stuff about the site more easily and i will get the excavator out there too and have a proper sort out of a BIG project i want to get sorted. It all takes time though and i have a lot i have to do in other areas of my life too.

 

I WILL get there though. Just PROUD to be able to do what i can and make a real difference, VERY VERY proud, make no mistake. I want to get neglected and abandoned areas back into use for the patients, and i will, make no mistake about that one!!

 

john..

Edited April 28, 2022 by john87

[AHPP]

Not Aintree by any chance?