Your Tree falls into neighbours, whose responsibility to clear up?

[daltontrees]

15 hours ago, scbk said:

Another added complication could be that in Scotland windblown trees need a felling licence (unless exempt). Don't know how it would work if you were clearing trees in a park/garden (exempt) that had blown through the boundary from a woodland

It's called a 'Felling Permission' and it is not that different to a 'Felling License' in England and Wales. The rules are bit more strict though, and windthrow didn't used to need a License, but this was because of lax application of the law rather than the law itself.

Trees in gardens and public open spaces are always exempt.

The idiots at the Scottish Parliament removed the 'nuisance' exemption, which still applies in E&W. So a tree lying into a garden may be exempt as a 'nuisance'.

[openspaceman]

3 hours ago, daltontrees said:

This question always comes up and it continues to be surprising how ill-defined the answer is. Attempts to answer it always drift off into pragmatic advice, matters of insurance and of responsibility for harm or damage, and horror stories abot spirallign legal costs. I believe the answer is clear and simple as long as these distractions are ignored, or at least answered as special cases to the general rule.

 

If your tree falls into a neighbour's garden, it's still yours so get it removed.

IF THERE WAS ALSO DAMAGE OR HARM TO NEIGHBOUR

If it caused damage or harm that could not have been reasonably foreseen, the tree owner is not responsible for compensation.

If harm or damage was reasonably foreseeable, the tree owner may be held negligent and compensation would be payable.

IF THERE ARE ALSO INSURERS INVOLVED

If there are insurances in place, the insurers may step in and deal with negligence claims. It doesn't change the rights or responsibilites of the parties.

Purely depending on what the policy or policies say, insurance may or may not pay out for unforeseeable damage. This is not a rule of law, it depends on the policy. It doesn't change the rights or responsibilites of the parties.

Policies differ as to liability for damage to 3rd party property, whether by negligence or bad luck. They also differ as to cover for damage to boundary structures, which oddly are often excluded from insurance on cheap policies.

That's as I see it but more eloquently laid out as becomes a professional report writer.

[Dan Maynard]

6 hours ago, daltontrees said:

damage was reasonably foreseeable

I like the explanation, but the tree has now fallen over so the evidence is at least disturbed if not destroyed. Is there a proper definition of reasonably foreseeable or is that the argument to have?

[daltontrees]

13 hours ago, Dan Maynard said:

I like the explanation, but the tree has now fallen over so the evidence is at least disturbed if not destroyed. Is there a proper definition of reasonably foreseeable or is that the argument to have?

Endless argument to be had, a lot of tree case law is about this very subject. The standard for noticing, discovering and understanding the significance of tree defects expected of householders is not very high, but the law expects you to act on anything you (or a hypothetical average person) would be expected to notice or discover. If ther neighbour brings it to your attention and you do nothing, there's trouble ahead.

Big complicated subject, but only a few basic principles.

[scbk]

On 07/03/2022 at 13:18, daltontrees said:

It's called a 'Felling Permission' and it is not that different to a 'Felling License' in England and Wales. The rules are bit more strict though, and windthrow didn't used to need a License, but this was because of lax application of the law rather than the law itself.

Trees in gardens and public open spaces are always exempt.

The idiots at the Scottish Parliament removed the 'nuisance' exemption, which still applies in E&W. So a tree lying into a garden may be exempt as a 'nuisance'.

So I wonder how it would work then, if you had a large tree, or possibly a number of, windblown/uprooted over the boundary from a woodland into a garden. And the woodland owner wasn't going to cut them or apply for a felling permission themselves.

 

Would the garden owner/their contractor have to apply for a felling permission on the other person's trees to clear the garden?

-how would that work in terms of replanting conditions?

Would the part of the tree(s) in the garden now be exempt from felling permission?

What about windblown trees hung up at 45deg crossing the boundary mid air

 

I know that it's likely to go unnoticed by the authorities if away from public view...

[openspaceman]

10 hours ago, scbk said:

So I wonder how it would work then, if you had a large tree, or possibly a number of, windblown/uprooted over the boundary from a woodland into a garden. And the woodland owner wasn't going to cut them or apply for a felling permission themselves.

My take is that is an actionable nuisance so crack on, best of luck getting the costs off of the owner but you might just make a case for defraying some cost by selling the wood.

10 hours ago, scbk said:

 

Would the garden owner/their contractor have to apply for a felling permission on the other person's trees to clear the garden?

I don't think so, felling licences were originally to stop trees which were a strategic reserve being prematurely felled, I'm not at all sure of the reasoning behind requiring a permission for dealing with windblow.

10 hours ago, scbk said:

-how would that work in terms of replanting conditions?

Dunno but nothing to do with the gardener just between the forest authority and landowner.

10 hours ago, scbk said:

Would the part of the tree(s) in the garden now be exempt from felling permission?

See above

10 hours ago, scbk said:

What about windblown trees hung up at 45deg crossing the boundary mid air

I guess the landowner could reasonably foresee they will fall on the neighbouring garden and thus he would become liable for damage and abating the nuisance.

10 hours ago, scbk said:

 

I know that it's likely to go unnoticed by the authorities if away from public view...

 

[daltontrees]

7 hours ago, openspaceman said:

My take is that is an actionable nuisance so crack on, best of luck getting the costs off of the owner but you might just make a case for defraying some cost by selling the wood.

I don't think so, felling licences were originally to stop trees which were a strategic reserve being prematurely felled, I'm not at all sure of the reasoning behind requiring a permission for dealing with windblow.

Dunno but nothing to do with the gardener just between the forest authority and landowner.

See above

I guess the landowner could reasonably foresee they will fall on the neighbouring garden and thus he would become liable for damage and abating the nuisance.

 

A couple of thigs to add here.

 

In Scotland the nuisance exemption has been removed, inexplicably. Do not rely on it.

 

There never has been a windthrow (windblow) exemption, it was just never enforced. In Scotland the whole rationale for Licenses and for protecting trees has been rewritten in to the 2018 Act, and it's not got a lot to do with strategic timber reserves any more. In England the rationale has drifted, without statutory authority, towards sustainability and habitat considerations (and in one case it was reported that prosecution was based on loss of amenity) and one day the legislation might catch up with that.

 

Windthrow is enforced in Scotland almost certainly to ensure restocking obligations.

[Techno]

Sorry to jump on your post and for long winded description but in a similar situation. During Storm Arwen a large conifer blown from neighbours land onto our property writing off motorhome , wrecking garage roof and damaging car parked in garage.

I contacted tree surgeon at neighbours request (I have it in a text message) but he agreed to the tree surgeon carrying out the work (verbally) witnessed by me, hubby and tree surgeon. He texted me to say his insurance had agreed to immediate remedial action.
 

In my innocence I thought my insurance would sort damage to my property and he would sort tree but oh no. Tree had to have bracing scaffold built under it and with lifting equipment etc it was quite a significant bill. Afterwards he tells me that his insurance company have said we should split the cost 50 50 (have this in writing) He then tells tree surgeon to send the bill to me as I had commissioned his service (I don't think so!!)

So I get a bill for half of the work (as agreed with neighbour) from the tree surgeon and pay my half of the bill. Other half is sent to neighbour.

 

4 months later the neighbour has still not paid the tree surgeon for his half and the poor man is quite distraught. He has texted, emailed, and written but has been totally ignored.

 

so my question to you experts is has anything similar happened to you and what did you do about it?

[Baldbloke]

I was under the impression the above was not the case.

 

i have been looking into this as i have trees on my ground, but most of the insurance sites state that it is not the tree owners insurance but the house holders if landed on.

They claim of their own and don't then claim of urs like u do for car insurance.

 

By rights the way i read it the neighbours insurance should pay for the work and then give u the timber back if u want it.

It did seem a funny situation to me

 

We have a Scottish (don’t know if English law differs here) small holding amounting to 8 acres including large gardens. I let out the paddocks for grazing. I have very mature coniferous trees growing within striking distance of a neighbour’s house. Although I have house and contents insurance, I pay an additional insurance cover for the ground separate from the house of just over £200/annually to insure third party risks on the small holding.

 

Did I wrongly assume: my trees, my responsibility, if they were to fall?

 

However, I was much happier during the gales knowing I’d paid for the cover.

[Julie Sawyer]

My neighbour ( or someone) has drilled holes in the base of his trees and it looks like they have been injection with something . The leaves have died and fell very quickly and now the trunks have gone a dark colour. They are clearly dying!

He is denying all knowledge of this being done but my concern is that if falls onto us whilst we are in the garden.
can anybody advise me as what to do please, is there anybody I can speak to with my concerns. 
 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Julie Sawyer
Spelling mistake