Firewood Moisture Content

[openspaceman]

51 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

The Air Quality (Domestic Solid Fuels Standards) (England) Regulations 2020

WWW.LEGISLATION.GOV.UK

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These Regulations are made under section 87 of the Environment Act 1995 (c. 25). They make provision...

  part 2

Please keep up at the back; I was asking where @Justme had seen that the testing would be done by visiting a cutomer's premises, taking a sample log and testing it. AFAICS the enforcement section does not mention this

 

The Air Quality (Domestic Solid Fuels Standards) (England) Regulations 2020

WWW.LEGISLATION.GOV.UK

---

These Regulations are made under section 87 of the Environment Act 1995 (c. 25). They make provision restricting...

 

 

Anyway you cited the earlier draft, not that I know of any differences.

[openspaceman]

9 minutes ago, Justme said:

Woodsure.

If i remember right its in the downloadable packs for application.

Okay I haven't seen anything of this, I am a self supplier of firewood in lots of less than 2m3

[openspaceman]

21 minutes ago, Stubby said:

This morning I got in a load of freshly felled ash ( surprise , surprise )  and got it in the log store just before it winded and rainded at 07:00 this morning  Kev . This was a job well done in my head as the wind today must have dried it out even in the log store with a bit of a head start .

You have a head start with ash if you have split it even better. Drying will be speeding up from here on in apart from days you can see your breath.

Edited March 11, 2021 by openspaceman

[Justme]

Read the small print

 

QUOTE

4.2 Following initial approval, to ensure that the requirements of the scheme are maintained, monitoring, sampling and or inspection of the Woodsure supplier operations’ will be undertaken at intervals to be specified by Woodsure from time to time. The monitoring and testing may take one or more of the following forms:  Routine audit visits to the Woodsure supplier operations’ (risk based)  Annual testing of representative fuel samples from the production process  Random testing of woodfuel and point of sale information collected from outlets and distributors  Samples taken, or visit to a Woodsure supplier customer, (with reference to a complaint)  A postal or telephone questionnaire to customer(s) of the supplier  For ENplus producer / traders, we can accept a successful third party ENplus audit.

 

And

 

QUOTE

5.2 Where Woodsure supplier’s Customer, or their representative such as a Maintenance engineer believes that a fuel is non-compliant and they are in dispute with the supplier and no resolution has been agreed, Woodsure may be able to:  Inspect or comment on the fuel store for any defects (where possible),  take a sample (if possible), or provide a process to take a representative sample and  test the fuel and distribute the results to both parties. To inspect a sample, the sample must be representative of the delivery and collected under controlled conditions. A sample of up to 3kg of woodfuel from their store may be required. This will only be undertaken after permission is granted by the suppliers’ customer. The customer retains the right to refuse access or to request that sampling takes place at the depot.

 

And

 

QUOTE

11Fees 11.1 Scheme fees will be publicised each year by the Woodsure for the preceding year. Woodsure will endeavour to keep annual fees to a minimum. 11.2 Additional fees may be charged for repeated test failures, or additional site audit, for example in the event of a complaint, in line with those stated on the scale of charges document which is reviewed annually. Woodsure Rules for Participation Rev 2 1 May 2017 May 2017 Page 8 of 9 

 

From https://woodsure.co.uk/woodpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Woodsure-Rules-for-Participation-Rev-2-1-May-2017.pdf

 

 

 

Then you have the T&C's from here 

Woodsure Application Pack | Acrreditation | Firewood | Briquettes | Chip

WOODSURE.CO.UK

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Please download the Woodsure Application Pack below, along with the relevant Fuel Template manuals below and...

 

 

 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

56 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

Please keep up at the back; I was asking where @Justme had seen that the testing would be done by visiting a cutomer's premises, taking a sample log and testing it. AFAICS the enforcement section does not mention this

 

The Air Quality (Domestic Solid Fuels Standards) (England) Regulations 2020

WWW.LEGISLATION.GOV.UK

---

These Regulations are made under section 87 of the Environment Act 1995 (c. 25). They make provision restricting...

 

 

Anyway you cited the earlier draft, not that I know of any differences.

I’m being a bit absent minded today 😂 It’s a rest day 😂

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

40 minutes ago, Justme said:

Read the small print

 

QUOTE

4.2 Following initial approval, to ensure that the requirements of the scheme are maintained, monitoring, sampling and or inspection of the Woodsure supplier operations’ will be undertaken at intervals to be specified by Woodsure from time to time. The monitoring and testing may take one or more of the following forms:  Routine audit visits to the Woodsure supplier operations’ (risk based)  Annual testing of representative fuel samples from the production process  Random testing of woodfuel and point of sale information collected from outlets and distributors  Samples taken, or visit to a Woodsure supplier customer, (with reference to a complaint)  A postal or telephone questionnaire to customer(s) of the supplier  For ENplus producer / traders, we can accept a successful third party ENplus audit.

 

And

 

QUOTE

5.2 Where Woodsure supplier’s Customer, or their representative such as a Maintenance engineer believes that a fuel is non-compliant and they are in dispute with the supplier and no resolution has been agreed, Woodsure may be able to:  Inspect or comment on the fuel store for any defects (where possible),  take a sample (if possible), or provide a process to take a representative sample and  test the fuel and distribute the results to both parties. To inspect a sample, the sample must be representative of the delivery and collected under controlled conditions. A sample of up to 3kg of woodfuel from their store may be required. This will only be undertaken after permission is granted by the suppliers’ customer. The customer retains the right to refuse access or to request that sampling takes place at the depot.

 

And

 

QUOTE

11Fees 11.1 Scheme fees will be publicised each year by the Woodsure for the preceding year. Woodsure will endeavour to keep annual fees to a minimum. 11.2 Additional fees may be charged for repeated test failures, or additional site audit, for example in the event of a complaint, in line with those stated on the scale of charges document which is reviewed annually. Woodsure Rules for Participation Rev 2 1 May 2017 May 2017 Page 8 of 9 

 

From https://woodsure.co.uk/woodpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Woodsure-Rules-for-Participation-Rev-2-1-May-2017.pdf

 

 

 

Then you have the T&C's from here 

Woodsure Application Pack | Acrreditation | Firewood | Briquettes | Chip

WOODSURE.CO.UK

---

Please download the Woodsure Application Pack below, along with the relevant Fuel Template manuals below and...

 

 

 

Sounds much like the BSL scheme. 
 

More shiny asses in an office making a living off the toil of others. 
 

Elements of that audit appear quite presumptive and assume an element of ‘authority’ to visit which simply doesn’t exist without invitation. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by kevinjohnsonmbe

[Stillburning]

I am reluctantly signing up to the Ready To Burn scheme because I have to, one of the reasons I left forestry contracting and management was because there were so many organisations telling you how to do your job.

 

One important point that I don't think is clear on the Woodsure website is that although the RTB scheme is administered by Woodsure, it is distinct from and less onerous than the actual woodsure assured quality woodfuel scheme.

 

I only found this out after speaking to a very helpful lady at their office.

 

Maybe that was just me being dull but thought it might be helpful to anyone else who has to sign up.

[Logburner]

Hi Stillburning

 

I'm a buyer not a seller but I buy an awful lot of wood to be the sole heat source for a large Victorian house, so I'm very interested in these things.  In fact, the whole thread here has been amazingly interesting and informative.

 

But does your comment mean you will sign up as a Ready to Burn supplier but not register for the Woodsure assured quality woodfuel scheme?

 

Any comments on how a supplier might make that choice and what it means for the buyer?

 

[Stillburning]

5 minutes ago, Logburner said:

Hi Stillburning

 

I'm a buyer not a seller but I buy an awful lot of wood to be the sole heat source for a large Victorian house, so I'm very interested in these things.  In fact, the whole thread here has been amazingly interesting and informative.

 

But does your comment mean you will sign up as a Ready to Burn supplier but not register for the Woodsure assured quality woodfuel scheme?

 

Any comments on how a supplier might make that choice and what it means for the buyer?

 

Yes that is what I am intending to do. For the buyer the RTB scheme means they will know the wood supplied is below the regulation moisture content - in addition the supplier has to prove that the wood is legally sourced, that they have a complaints procedure and product and public liability insurance.

 

My (limited, after reading through the guidance) understanding  is that the woodsure scheme additionally requires the supplier to document their quality production processes and provide proof in a Quality Manual, which required more detailed records to be kept at the the time of purchase/processing/storage etc and to keep records of equipment, operator training, site layout etc. You can also apply for a Grown In Britain licence.

 

My decision as to which scheme to join is that the RTB scheme is less onerous in terms of paperwork and record keeping.

[Peasgood]

15 minutes ago, Logburner said:

Hi Stillburning

 

I'm a buyer not a seller but I buy an awful lot of wood to be the sole heat source for a large Victorian house, so I'm very interested in these things.  In fact, the whole thread here has been amazingly interesting and informative.

 

But does your comment mean you will sign up as a Ready to Burn supplier but not register for the Woodsure assured quality woodfuel scheme?

 

Any comments on how a supplier might make that choice and what it means for the buyer?

 

If you buy an awful lot of wood do you not already know who to get a good product off or how to tell if the wood you are buying is good quality or not? 

Also if you are buying an awful lot it would usually make sense to buy quite a bit in one go and store it yourself rather than by a few nets of logs each day for example. My point there is that you should be able to buy enough that you can season it yourself or at least ensure it has been dry stored for long enough. I accept that not everyone has storage space.

 

These assured logs are going to be sold by the same people as before, I would assume from the same trees and stored/sold in the same manner as before. All that will have changed is that the seller has now forked out a not inconsiderable amount of money for a piece of paper confirming what I would expect you to already know. 

 

No doubt you have heard of someone buying a car with a full MOT only to discover the tyres are bald, the exhaust is hanging off and the horn doesn't work. But they had a certificate saying they were qualified to issue an MOT. The flipside is also true, that fantastic guy you have always bought the very best quality logs off doesn't suddenly turn up with a load of rotten Poplar just because he has a certificate.

 

Sorry, went off on one a bit there.