Top out ASAP or leave until last - mass damping, inertia etc

[AHPP]

 

Unless it’s really windy, I generally like to leave the top where my tie in point and rigging probably is while I’m doing the rest of the tree. The dead weight of flexible branches makes it feel like it’s a better anchor, less prone to twanging about like a bare pole does. But theorising, if you cut the top off first, that’s less pole strength being wasted on keeping the top up there so more strength for climber and rigging. But it feels worse.

Example: I recently negative rigged a top from a neighbouring tree onto my tie in and rigging tree and was hugely grateful to have left the top on the rigging tree. A bare pole would have twanged horribly.

I suppose the question comes down to balancing intuition against physics. Top on or top off?

 

I remember @RobRainford posting a while ago about trees coping with wind by spreading load about the network of branches, the inertia of branches letting unions etc work as nature intended. Sounds a similar area of discussion to the above. Would be interested in input on this too.

 

 

 

[Mark Bolam]

I totally agree with you on the inertia thing, the top definitely helps to tone down the twanging, but I often get the top out as soon as possible for a few reasons depending on the situation.

One is wind, as you mentioned.

Another is mental, when the tops out I feel I’ve already won.

On a busy conny I’ll often cut a channel on the way up.

I can then lay the tops on to the lower limbs if I’m cutting and chucking, which eases the shock on my broken old shoulders.

I can then manoeuvre the tops and throw them down the channel.

The last one is purely due to my dislike of exposure.

I’ve always hated rigging long but skinny tops when I’m spiked to a 4” diameter stem with ‘nothing’ below me rigging a 30’ leader on itself.

Lombardies are particularly bad for this!

[Rich Rule]

I think it depends on the weather and situation.  I will often get the top out first if it feels like the weather it picking up.

 

Rigging the top in strong wind off a tall pole can banjo you about, big style.

 

 

[JaySmith]

Ever tree is different, often if I’m working a busy evergreen I’ll go up and clear a path around my rope to allow me to get out onto larger lower limbs and may also nip the top out if I need to lessen the force on the anchor point or if the tree is in a sketchy way for example but more often than not I’ll tie in then come right down and work back up and take the top out last. Also all depends when the boys want to stop for dinner as it’s often nice to break the back of the job by stripping the crown and then do the timber after lunch. As others have said taking the top out does make the tree twang a bit but often no biggie. Sometimes, especially when rigging it is isn’t possible to snatch the top out first as it will get hung up all over the place and really please the groundies.

I’ve worked plenty of Lombardy’s in the wind and taken the top out first, as Mark says it makes it feel like you’ve won already! Did some leggy conifer reductions on Friday that were on the top of a hill and I was getting battered by the wind so I took the top out when I tied in the came down further to remove the laterals. Often it’s a tree by tree basis, personally I don’t mind spiking up a skinny pole and snatching the top out as I’m relatively small but understand why some don’t like rocking around on a 4 - 5 inch diameter stem in the wind!

[AHPP]

I totally agree with you on the inertia thing, the top definitely helps to tone down the twanging, but I often get the top out as soon as possible for a few reasons depending on the situation.
One is wind, as you mentioned.
Another is mental, when the tops out I feel I’ve already won.
On a busy conny I’ll often cut a channel on the way up.
I can then lay the tops on to the lower limbs if I’m cutting and chucking, which eases the shock on my broken old shoulders.
I can then manoeuvre the tops and throw them down the channel.
The last one is purely due to my dislike of exposure.
I’ve always hated rigging long but skinny tops when I’m spiked to a 4” diameter stem with ‘nothing’ below me rigging a 30’ leader on itself.
Lombardies are particularly bad for this!

Exposure certainly a factor.
Any number of other things too. Chip runs etc. Annoying having a little bit of brash saved until the end of the day.

[Paddy1000111]

I leave it untill last, mass damper effect and all that. Plus it doesn't get hung up on the way down. Clear below, drop the top then step the stick. 

[AHPP]

nip the top out if I need to lessen the force on the anchor point

 

Does it though? Perhaps it would let the anchor point take greater loads when applied slowly but wouldn’t hold up as well to shock loads? That’s my gut feeling. Largely theoretical I hasten to add. If you’re banging big loads onto a pole and think you need a top to cope with it, you’re probably rigging too roughly.

[JaySmith]

Does it though? Perhaps it would let the anchor point take greater loads when applied slowly but wouldn’t hold up as well to shock loads? That’s my gut feeling.

Maybe should have said less weight that would be more accurate than force. The laterals may dampen the movement a little but on things like connies the lions tail on the top may also catch the wind more after you’ve removed the lower growth. Did a mouldy Sycamore the other day, leader for the tie in point was new growth from previous topping and the stem had what looked like poor attachment points with little reaction wood so I took the top out first before working the rest to minimise the weight of me plus the top on the anchor point. Yes the pole was then a bit more ‘twangy’ but I was fine with that if that makes sense. Everybody has their own ways of doing things and I guess there is no right or wrong way (as long as it’s done safely and with knowledge/experience applied)

[Mick Dempsey]

I’m a top leaver-inner.

[Mark Bolam]

Pleasant change to have a decent arb discussion fellas!

 

I think the points we have gathered so far is that different trees in different conditions sometimes call for different approaches.