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Haironyourchest

Groundie Assisted Ascent ??

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A hypothetical situation:

 

Climber has fired a throwline over a natural crotch. Uses throwline to pull access rope through crotch and down to the base of the tree. Instead of tying a base anchor, he uses the access line to haul up a pinto Ddrt system. Pinto is hauled up just under the natural crotch, with the double ropes dangling down. He then secures the tail of the hauling/access line to a base anchor. All clear so far?

 

Now, the climber can ascend Ddrt with his zigzag, but here's my question: what if his groundie pulled on the tail of the Ddrt moving rope? That would lift the climber. It would be just like hauling a sack of spuds up into the tree. The climber has built in progress capture (zigzag) and the pulley at the TIP means close to zero friction.

 

The load at TIP will be quadrupled, or close to it. Pinto experiencing climber's weight + groundie's weight, and TIP experiencing double that. So this would have to be a very solid natural crotch, that's a given. Pinto is rated at 10kn WLL which is close to a tonne, so no problem there. Access line should be rated appropriately.

 

Instead of lounging about, your groundsman could be doing the work of hauling you aloft. If he's heavier than you, you will simply float upward. If he's lighter than you, you will have to assist to make up the difference.

 

Think of the energy this could save.

 

I'm sure someone has thought of this before. Anyone tried it?

 

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If I have this right, you've got a pulley as the anchor at the top then the climbers DDRT through that? Assuming your climber and groundie weigh the same lets say 90kg=

 

The Hauling line (ddrt tail) would need the same pulling force as the climbers weight to get him up in the air as you have no mechanical advantage. So your groundie would have to pull 90kg up the tree. Your TIP would experience the climbers weight plus the groundies weight so 180kg. But you have it base tied so 360kg.

 

No different to an SRT system with a base tie. The base tie experiences the same force as the climbers weight, the TIP experiences the climbers weight plus the counteracting base tie so double? 

Edited by Paddy1000111
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If there are three or more on the floor, for long ascents I’ll have them pull me back up with the rigging line while I tend my climbing line. Even better if there’s a capstan/truck/skidsteer/digger on the rigging line. Not tried it with a Hobbs/GRCS but suspect it would be too slow to be worthwhile. Haven’t climbed double rope much for years but will have probably had some hauling help on that too. Every little helps.

I’ve also done some experimenting with a counterweight system of a few concrete blocks but getting the weight perfect was a fiddle and you’ve added a load of concrete blocks being hoisted up and down a tree, catching on stuff and just generally being sketchy. Could probably improve it by underweighting the blocks slightly and adding a hitch and running a slick shaped weight but it still seemed like too much fvcking on for the added complexity and risk when I left it. Not written off but if you want a step forward in easy climbing, it’s probably down the road of a battery winch, either on you or at your tie in.

 

 

 

 

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Paddy: thanks for your reply - yes that's what I meant, you got it.

 

AHPP: thanks for your reply - I read somewhere a guy was hurt doing the skid steer thing, maybe it was a pickup truck. Yes the principle has surely been tried before, you tried it anyway. I like the counterweight idea. This could really work. Ascend to TIP, have groundie attach counterweight at just above ground level, and from that point on you're counterweighted, but you are limited to that length of rope. Cant redirect the tail, as it's weighted. Up or down only probably. Even a small counterweight like 20kg would probably make a difference. Could use bar plates and attach with a 6 wrap prussic. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it myself, but great idea nevertheless.

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Back in the good ole days that was one of the standard methods of getting the climber in the tree. But he had to rely on the hauler to not drop him at times, no hitch was used.

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I’ve attached the working end of the rigging line to my bridge and had the lads hoist me up while I’m tending the zigzag. (Usually after lunch).
Since the last time I’ve lost two stone so getting back up isn’t nearly so tiring.
Don’t be such a fat git, is often the answer to some of life’s difficulties.

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your basically saying for the groundsman to pull down on the drt tail, this does help the climber a bit, but its far from being pulled up into the tree, as for setting up a whole second floating anchor to facilitate it , i cant see it would be worth the hassle.

a lot of climbers are using srt to ascend these day too.

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