Poll on two rope technique.

[skyhuck]

1 hour ago, Paddy1000111 said:

Yea I completely agree, but in the situation that I've cut away my anchor, I'd rather take the risk and hope the log breaks away first and the second anchor holds so I'm thrown around but don't hit the ground than there be no second and I'm just dragged out. That was my only point 👍

But you completely miss my initial point, that two main lines at least doubles your chances of making that fateful error. In the vast majority of occasions your second anchor point would simply snap, making it no different than felling your single anchor.

[Paddy1000111]

Just now, skyhuck said:

But you completely miss my initial point, that two main lines at least doubles your chances of making that fateful error. In the vast majority of occasions your second anchor point would simply snap, making it no different than felling your single anchor.

Then I apologise if that's what we were arguing about. I don't debate that at all, you are twice as likely to cut your anchor if you have two anchors. My only objection was to if I was using the set up I pictured and I was told I would be crushed by the harness or cut in half, which isn't true (except against the tree). Either way, I suppose, you're being dragged out the tree into a de-constructed mess on the floor. 

 

I guess my only question would be, are you safer using one anchor based on the possibility of cutting your anchor down which from what I have seen in the AA & HSE reports of falls from height I would say no. For 16-17-18 there were no reports of people cutting down their anchors and all of the accidents could have been prevented by having a second anchor.

 

Arboricultural Association - HSE Fall from Height Incidents involving arborists

WWW.TREES.ORG.UK

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<p class= lead bold mb10 >This article contains brief examples of the falls from height reported to HSE under RIDDOR.</p> <p>All injured persons were arborists.</p> <h3...

 

[skyhuck]

2 minutes ago, Paddy1000111 said:

Then I apologise if that's what we were arguing about. I don't debate that at all, you are twice as likely to cut your anchor if you have two anchors. My only objection was to if I was using the set up I pictured and I was told I would be crushed by the harness or cut in half, which isn't true (except against the tree). Either way, I suppose, you're being dragged out the tree into a de-constructed mess on the floor. 

 

I guess my only question would be, are you safer using one anchor based on the possibility of cutting your anchor down which from what I have seen in the AA & HSE reports of falls from height I would say no. For 16-17-18 there were no reports of people cutting down their anchors and all of the accidents could have been prevented by having a second anchor.

 

Arboricultural Association - HSE Fall from Height Incidents involving arborists

WWW.TREES.ORG.UK

---

<p class= lead bold mb10 >This article contains brief examples of the falls from height reported to HSE under RIDDOR.</p> <p>All injured persons were arborists.</p> <h3...

 

But.... what % of accidents are reported or reported correctly?

 

 

[Paddy1000111]

Just now, skyhuck said:

But.... what % of accidents are reported or reported correctly?

Well that's where everything is questioned I guess. I'm not saying anchor cutting doesn't happen because it 100% does but we all agreed earlier that a lot of the accidents were caused by inexperience. Everyone also agreed earlier that most of the inexperienced climbers worked for larger companies/utilities that are for the large part arb approved and bound by the rules of RIDDOR and HSE reporting. If cutting of the anchor was quite a common mistake it would have shown up at least once in three years I would have thought? 

 

In saying that I'm sure the accident rate for two rope will skyrocket over the next few years as more people use it, if no-one is climbing two rope then there won't be two rope accidents, that will all change now

[Marc Lewis]

Okay so anchor in tree, rope from that anchor onto the ring on your rope bridge on your harness, then from the same ring down another rope onto a piece of wood that was your original anchor. How is that going to impart any loading or crushing force onto your harness. If we're on about cutting off the anchor and all the force being taken up by your positional strop on your hip d's then yea, I agree, nice way to get an open book fracture.
 It's not about experience because no, I don't have any experience of cutting off the top of a tree with my anchor still attached to it and having one ton of wood hanging from my rope bridge. Like you say though, it might break something, it might not. All depends on how it falls and how far. 
 
The other choice in this is you have cut the top of the tree off that has your anchor in it and one tonne of wood drags you out the tree accelerating you for the 50ft fall before power-driving you into the ground. 
 
If in your experience of having one ton of wood hanging from your harness because you seem confident to bring up experience here- do tell me how the force on the ring is transposed into a crushing force on the harness?
 
Let me just make it clear here, I am on about the difference between you cutting the part of the tree with the anchor attached in single rope vs double rope. You're getting dragged out regardless. I would rather have a chance that I'm not power-drived into the ground. 

Please stop

[Paddy1000111]

35 minutes ago, Marc Lewis said:

17 hours ago, Paddy1000111 said:

Okay so anchor in tree, rope from that anchor onto the ring on your rope bridge on your harness, then from the same ring down another rope onto a piece of wood that was your original anchor. How is that going to impart any loading or crushing force onto your harness. If we're on about cutting off the anchor and all the force being taken up by your positional strop on your hip d's then yea, I agree, nice way to get an open book fracture.
 It's not about experience because no, I don't have any experience of cutting off the top of a tree with my anchor still attached to it and having one ton of wood hanging from my rope bridge. Like you say though, it might break something, it might not. All depends on how it falls and how far. 
 
The other choice in this is you have cut the top of the tree off that has your anchor in it and one tonne of wood drags you out the tree accelerating you for the 50ft fall before power-driving you into the ground. 
 
If in your experience of having one ton of wood hanging from your harness because you seem confident to bring up experience here- do tell me how the force on the ring is transposed into a crushing force on the harness?
 
Let me just make it clear here, I am on about the difference between you cutting the part of the tree with the anchor attached in single rope vs double rope. You're getting dragged out regardless. I would rather have a chance that I'm not power-drived into the ground. 

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Please stop

We have?

[Marc Lewis]

We have?

[emoji106][emoji106] yes, i did what i do not often do and comment before i have read the whole thread.

[Khriss]

10 minutes ago, Marc Lewis said:

yes, i did what i do not often do and comment before i have read the whole thread.

Hippo recipe is abt page 19,  K

[Mick Dempsey]

 

Anyway, to move it along, judging by the poll and what’s been said, it seems there’s a two tier system at play

 

Independent smaller firms largely ignore it and larger companies tend to enforce it, so what’s the future hold?

 

Younger guys coming from the bigger companies to work on their own or for the independents dropping its use or bringing it over?

 

 

 

[Khriss]

I would say so Dempsey , probably the bigger ones got tight commitments to clients HSQ, smaller ones have more lee way ( I personally dont like it - but have no choice )  K