Can I do some extra freelance work for the company I work for?

[Khriss]

Cept fr Little Timmy who is having time of it.  K

[Rich Rule]

lol Timmy was screwed from the time his parents decided to calm him that.

[Mick Dempsey]

C’mere you guys!

[mtt.tr]

If i drop a log and it smashes a house ( what we talking here a 100' redwood) its the groundies fault for not stopping it with the rake

 

 😂🤣🤣

 

[Mark Bolam]

6 hours ago, Paddy1000111 said:

I'll have a look later when i have time.

 

Let me put it in a different way, your on a job with your groundie and a freelance climber. It's in a residential address, you're cutting up branches that your freelance climber has cut down and your groundie is loading the chipper. Your groundie asks for a hand carrying a log out to the van and you agree, your climber is at this point chogging sections down, there's nothing to hit and there's no-one around so you and the groundie carry the log to the van. Next thing you hear the saw shut off and a load of screaming. Whilst you gave the groundie a hand little Timmy ran out from the house and has just been hit and killed by a 100kg section that's just fallen 30ft. The police arrive followed by HSE, your already having a bad day and it's about to get worse. One of you is going to be charged with manslaughter.

 

According to you, you are the overall responsible person so apparently that's you even though it's your freelance climber that killed someone. The climber you had told the police "I'm a freelancer" and they will have apologized to him for even asking and said he doesn't have to be here so can go home, no questions asked. If this is how it works then I've spent a lot of money on insurance and time checking in covered when using the magic freelancer word. 

It would actually be corporate manslaughter, and it would be me in the dock, not my freelancer who doesn’t have his own insurance.

 

Because it’s my job, and him having his own insurance would be worthless.

 

Good thread, though, and as Mick has said if it makes everyone check their own EL policies regarding using freelancers/labour-only subcontractors, then that can only be a good thing.

[Khriss]

Well i said that!  Wheres the Simon in this?  Poor Timmy faaaked now. K

[mtt.tr]

2 minutes ago, Khriss said:

Well i said that!  Wheres the Simon in this?  Poor Timmy faaaked now. K

 

I did Simon last week, petulant kid wouldn't go in, not a worry my horse was waiting plus my spurs are sharp

[Paddy1000111]

3 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

It would actually be corporate manslaughter, and it would be me in the dock, not my freelancer who doesn’t have his own insurance.

 

Because it’s my job, and him having his own insurance would be worthless.

 

Good thread, though, and as Mick has said if it makes everyone check their own EL policies regarding using freelancers/labour-only subcontractors, then that can only be a good thing.

Corporate manslaughter is defined by the Crown Prosecution Service as: An organisation is guilty of an offence under this section only if the way in which its activities are managed or organised by its senior management is a substantial element in the breach referred to in subsection. 

 

That being said, If you have told your freelancer to drop the log and it wasn't clear or instructed your climber to not check the drop zone before dropping the log then it's corporate manslaughter. 

 

If you tell your climber to carry on working and chog stuff down whilst you stop for lunch and tell him to "make sure that the drop zone is clear when your throwing stuff down" then suddenly the head on the block changes as it's negligence.

 

Just being at work doesn't make it corporate manslaughter or my HGV driving friend wouldn't have been in prison. His boss didn't tell him to have a crash. 

[mtt.tr]

5 minutes ago, Paddy1000111 said:

Corporate manslaughter is defined by the Crown Prosecution Service as: An organisation is guilty of an offence under this section only if the way in which its activities are managed or organised by its senior management is a substantial element in the breach referred to in subsection. 

 

That being said, If you have told your freelancer to drop the log and it wasn't clear or instructed your climber to not check the drop zone before dropping the log then it's corporate manslaughter. 

 

If you tell your climber to carry on working and chog stuff down whilst you stop for lunch and tell him to "make sure that the drop zone is clear when your throwing stuff down" then suddenly the head on the block changes as it's negligence.

 

Just being at work doesn't make it corporate manslaughter or my HGV driving friend wouldn't have been in prison. His boss didn't tell him to have a crash. 

 

Hgv is different as they have sole responsibility its an unfair deal hgv drivers get 

[Paddy1000111]

1 minute ago, mtt.tr said:

 

Hgv is different as they have sole responsibility its an unfair deal hgv drivers get 

Maybe the HGV world is a bad example. I'm not a driver so I don't know that side.

My point is Corporate manslaughter is having a member of the public or staff killed by poor management decisions. Your freelance climber making a mistake isn't corporate manslaughter. This is where the buck sits with UK law, when I was fixing planes on freelance, if I didn't torque a bolt up to the manual and the plane goes down then it's my head on the block for up to 3 years after I signed for that job. My manager isn't responsible unless he told me not to torque it up or not follow the manual. It's a sticky business.