Can I do some extra freelance work for the company I work for?

[Paddy1000111]

17 minutes ago, skyhuck said:

If it’s my job, my name on the invoice, me getting the bulk of the money, me deciding when the job is done, etc, etc, it’s ME on the line and hopefully insurance will cover my arse. Could I breach the terms of my insurance, by using untrained staff? Of cause I could, but that does not magically make it the financial responsibility of any person “working under my instructions” unless I have subbed out the job completely and they then call the shots and carry the can.

 

 This was all done to death more than 15 years ago. When HMRC clamped down on labour only subcontractors. At the time I was a subby climber, I worked for various firms, including Fountain forestry. I got a letter from the tax office saying they where happy I was genuinely self employed. But Fountains where scared of their tax liability and where making no exception. I bough a chipper, got a groundie and subbed into them as a small gang. 

I don't get why this has turned into a big conversation. My point from the start of this is to check your insurance policy and always read the fine print. Just having a policy doesn't mean that everyone is covered for everything. It doesn't matter who is in charge of what, it's down to what your insurance company put in your policy.

 

Lets look at this a different way, If you're an electrician and you go into a hotel and fit a plug where the hotel told you to. Next client goes in and electrocutes themselves because there was no earth. They spend 2 days in hospital. They claim off the hotels insurance who will swiftly pass the bill to the electricians insurance policy. 

Why do you think that as a company, if you subcontract some of your work, say climbing, to someone else that they are automatically covered by your insurance policy because you are telling them what branch to cut off or they are wearing a shirt with your logo on and you are invoicing the customer. It's not how business works and plenty of companies  have gone bankrupt and peoples houses repossessed because they haven't had the appropriate insurance. 

 

I'm not saying that if your insurance policy states in writing that it covers anyone subcontracted or freelance then it is a lie but I am saying that someone who is subcontracted or freelance IS NOT an employee. Some insurance companies may include a freelancer as an employee but IT IS DOWN TO THE INSURER 

 

My whole point with all of this was that if you are a subcontractor or freelancer or contract labourer or whatever you want to call yourself then ensure the insurance policy of every person you work for covers you? Why is that so hard?! 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Paddy1000111

[Khriss]

That. 

 

Tesco fined £500,000 over child's electric shock in Bracknell store

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

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The child suffered a small burn and chest pains when they were hurt at a Tesco store in Bracknell.

 

 

Someone will always foot the bill. Dont let it be You. K

[Paddy1000111]

2 minutes ago, Khriss said:

That. 

 

Tesco fined £500,000 over child's electric shock in Bracknell store

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

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The child suffered a small burn and chest pains when they were hurt at a Tesco store in Bracknell.

 

 

Someone will always foot the bill. Dont let it be You. K

And you can guarantee that if it was the self employed freezer repair guy who made a cock up and did the dodgy repairs instead of Tesco staff then that £500k bill would have been swiftly shifted to his insurance/pocket... No matter how many times he says "But it's Tesco's fridge, they told me that it needed to be fixed, their manager told me what fridge to repair, I shouldn't need insurance, it's Tesco's fridge and they're insured and they deal with the customer not me" 🙄

[eggsarascal]

14 minutes ago, Paddy1000111 said:

And you can guarantee that if it was the self employed freezer repair guy who made a cock up and did the dodgy repairs instead of Tesco staff then that £500k bill would have been swiftly shifted to his insurance/pocket... No matter how many times he says "But it's Tesco's fridge, they told me that it needed to be fixed, their manager told me what fridge to repair, I shouldn't need insurance, it's Tesco's fridge and they're insured and they deal with the customer not me" 🙄

You are mixing two different scenarios up, if that electrician was a freelancer the buck stops with the electrical company that employed him, not the person who actually did the job, fact. If he was a sub contractor it would be on him, if he's a freelancer not, fact.

 

 

[Paddy1000111]

7 minutes ago, eggsarascal said:

You are mixing two different scenarios up, if that electrician was a freelancer the buck stops with the electrical company that employed him, not the person who actually did the job, fact. If he was a sub contractor it would be on him, if he's a freelancer not, fact.

Can you link me to something from a reliable source that in the UK if you call yourself a freelancer then you have absolutely no personal liability in any way when working for another company and if anything goes wrong that you aren't responsible in any way? All I can find is stuff saying that you can be held accountable and it's the reason most freelancers are a LTD company. 

I agree that you won't be sued by the end client but there's nothing stopping the company you are freelancing to or their insurers suing you which is where personal indemnity comes in. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Paddy1000111

[Khriss]

 If this point hasnt been mentioned, if yr Ltd, they wont take yr house n car.  K

[eggsarascal]

13 minutes ago, Paddy1000111 said:

Can you link me to something from a reliable source that in the UK if you call yourself a freelancer then you have absolutely no personal liability in any way when working for another company and if anything goes wrong that you aren't responsible in any way? All I can find is stuff saying that you can be held accountable and it's the reason most freelancers are a LTD company. 

I agree that you won't be sued by the end client but there's nothing stopping the company you are freelancing to or their insurers suing you which is where personal indemnity comes in. 

When do Freelance Instructors need their own Personal Public Liability Insurance?

WWW.ACTIVITIESINDUSTRYMUTUAL.CO.UK

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When do Freelance Instructors need their own personal public liability insurance? it's a common question and one...

 

[Paddy1000111]

17 minutes ago, eggsarascal said:

When do Freelance Instructors need their own Personal Public Liability Insurance?

WWW.ACTIVITIESINDUSTRYMUTUAL.CO.UK

---

When do Freelance Instructors need their own personal public liability insurance? it's a common question and one...

 

That pretty much covers everything I just said? Your insurance is down to the insurer and your contract. You might not need public liability but this doesn't cover having personal indemnity and it definitely doesn't say that if you mess up as a freelancer you have no liability be it you or your ltd company? If your employer has public liability then the public claimant claims from them but there's nothing stopping the insurer going on a head hunt for you to regain losses?

 

I want to see something that says "if you are working as a freelancer you have absolutely no liability in any way, regardless of circumstances" because that's what everyone has been saying? "You don't need insurance as a freelancer" If I call myself a freelancer and go and work for someone then I don't have to worry about f***ing up, it won't come back to me and I can rest easy 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

 

That article also assumes that your policy covers "labour only subcontractors". It doesn't say it's always included? 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Paddy1000111

[Mark Bolam]

My insurance company know that I have no full time PAYE staff, but seem pretty happy to take my money every year for Employers Liability.

 

That would suggest to me that my freelancers are covered.

I’m pretty sure the law would see it like that as well, or I could do them for fraud.

[AHPP]

7 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

My insurance company know that I have no full time PAYE staff, but seem pretty happy to take my money every year for Employers Liability.

 

That would suggest to me that my freelancers are covered.

I’m pretty sure the law would see it like that as well, or I could do them for fraud.

Stir it.