Calling all Camp Gyro users

[Mike Hill]

2 hours ago, Khriss said:

And?  Trial by internet, dont make me laugh 😆  K

There you go again Khris,you are genuinely to dim to see how stupid you make yourself look.

 

What witty retort with the very vaguest of relevance awaits us in your reply this time?

 

*sharply draws in breath*

[Paddy1000111]

This thread was pretty constructive until this handbag swinging bs. All you have said is "I have done this longer than you so I don't follow the law" Which is fine, it's your choice. I just don't get why this is an argument? No-one here is saying "You guys don't know what you're talking about" no-one is saying "You can't climb and have no experience". 2 rope (or 2 anchors) isn't something suggested for better practice, it's not a industry good practice, it's not something taught on courses as a better way to do things and the amateur online is saying your all wrong and shouldn't be climbing, it's the law and failure to follow it can lead to you being taken to court for it? There's no argument in this. 

 

If you choose to crack on with single rope then that's your choice? I'm not telling you what to do, just trying to make things better for the guys who follow the law or are forced to climb two ropes by their organisations by creating a tool that makes life easier as camp genuinely care about what we think of their kit and want feedback to improve things from boots on the ground.

 

If you want to call my story about the farmer BS then go for it but it is what it is, a story I was told by the local farmers when asking why they were buckling down on their safety equipment and what staff can and can't do. 

[Khriss]

19 minutes ago, Mike Hill said:

There you go again Khris,you are genuinely to dim to see how stupid you make yourself look.

 

What witty retort with the very vaguest of relevance awaits us in your reply this time?

 

*sharply draws in breath*

Dunno , am financially secure , a lot of interesting projects to look forward to and a couple good contracts on the go - why would I care what those people think ? can't be stupid ending up with that . K 

[Khriss]

@Paddy1000111 got to agree there - instigated the 2Rope system on our job , two camps , one who accepted it and no bother - other side screamed ( and in one case actually had a hissy fit ) abt it . Just no getting away from the client expecting we did it . End of . K

[Mike Hill]

58 minutes ago, Khriss said:

Dunno , am financially secure , a lot of interesting projects to look forward to and a couple good contracts on the go - why would I care what those people think ? can't be stupid ending up with that . K 

Sure Khris.

 

Could you please take a month off Arbtalk to concentrate on your contracts and projects.

 

Be sure to post pictures in a month.

 

 

 

Good lad.

[jfc]

42 minutes ago, Paddy1000111 said:

This thread was pretty constructive until this handbag swinging bs. All you have said is "I have done this longer than you so I don't follow the law" Which is fine, it's your choice. I just don't get why this is an argument? No-one here is saying "You guys don't know what you're talking about" no-one is saying "You can't climb and have no experience". 2 rope (or 2 anchors) isn't something suggested for better practice, it's not a industry good practice, it's not something taught on courses as a better way to do things and the amateur online is saying your all wrong and shouldn't be climbing, it's the law and failure to follow it can lead to you being taken to court for it? There's no argument in this. 

 

If you choose to crack on with single rope then that's your choice? I'm not telling you what to do, just trying to make things better for the guys who follow the law or are forced to climb two ropes by their organisations by creating a tool that makes life easier as camp genuinely care about what we think of their kit and want feedback to improve things from boots on the ground.

 

If you want to call my story about the farmer BS then go for it but it is what it is, a story I was told by the local farmers when asking why they were buckling down on their safety equipment and what staff can and can't do. 

Paddy have your read Techie Paul's post on this? Do you know who he is or his job? he states 2 rope are not compulsory, and yet you bang on repeating stuff that is wrong. Have some humility/undertanding of your limited knowledge, rather than speaking like an expert.

 

You don't have to use 2 ropes, 2 attachments yes in many circumstances. However rigging is where this falls down, do you have a rigging ticket? Having an extra rope system whilst doing rigging was shown by HSE review to present other risks. This was all highlighted when the 2 ropes issue kicked off again a couple of years ago. 

 

Check out the highlighted quote below. Who published this? HSE ffs. I think your approach could be regarded as dogmatic imho!

 

[Khriss]

7 minutes ago, Mike Hill said:

Sure Khris.

 

Could you please take a month off Arbtalk to concentrate on your contacts and projects.

 

Be sure to post pictures in a month.

 

Good lad.

Fanks mate - didnt know it was a requirement to certify all what i do in my work , but will do my best , just for you    . K

[Paddy1000111]

7 minutes ago, jfc said:

Paddy have your read Techie Paul's post on this? Do you know who he is or his job? he states 2 rope are not compulsory, and yet you bang on repeating stuff that is wrong. Have some humility/undertanding of your limited knowledge, rather than speaking like an expert.

 

You don't have to use 2 ropes, 2 attachments yes in many circumstances. However rigging is where this falls down, do you have a rigging ticket? Having an extra rope system whilst doing rigging was shown by HSE review to present other risks. This was all highlighted when the 2 ropes issue kicked off again a couple of years ago. 

 

Check out the highlighted quote below. Who published this? HSE ffs. I think your approach could be regarded as dogmatic imho!

 

I think you are confusing what I am saying. When I am saying 2 ropes I mean- 2 anchors, be it a rope and a side strop, 2 ropes, 2 strops whatever. That report from HSE is from 2004. It was reviewed, along with training and industry standards last year. 

[jfc]

Just now, Paddy1000111 said:

I think you are confusing what I am saying. When I am saying 2 ropes I mean- 2 anchors, be it a rope and a side strop, 2 ropes, 2 strops whatever. That report from HSE is from 2004. It was reviewed, along with training and industry standards last year. 

so stop saying 2 ropes.

 

HSe report was not reviewed, it was coveniently ignored by HSE. However they have not produced new evidence to make it out of date. It is the most up to date review of 2 rope working in many situations. So until something newer comes along it is still the best we have.

If you have other evidence to counter this I would be interested.

[Paddy1000111]

13 minutes ago, jfc said:

so stop saying 2 ropes.

 

HSe report was not reviewed, it was coveniently ignored by HSE. However they have not produced new evidence to make it out of date. It is the most up to date review of 2 rope working in many situations. So until something newer comes along it is still the best we have.

If you have other evidence to counter this I would be interested.

Sorry but the general term on this forum is "2 rope" :

 

 

 

 

But I will use "Two anchor" from now on so you don't get upset. I would suggest consulting any large tree company that's now requiring full 2 rope (anchor) compliance or the fact that you will fail any NPTC course involving climbing if you are on one rope at ANY point including changing anchors. 

 

From the arboriculture industry code of practice:

 the operator should be connected to a backup that provides a fail-to-safe in the event of failure of the primary system, during ascent, moving around the tree and descent: 1. any system employed to act as a backup must: i. limit the distance and consequences of a fall if the primary system, including main line, components or anchor, were to fail; ii. use an anchor which is independent of the primary system anchor or, if there is not one that is suitable, be installed over a shared anchor. 2. the backup may only be omitted in cases where it is not practical to maintain it for specific, short-duration tasks. In such circumstances, all measures must be taken to ensure that the primary system anchor point and the personal fall protection system cannot fail.

 

I'm not saying that the law requires you to use two ropes all the time and there's no excuse. I am saying that if you're climbing a tree, according to hse and the AA you should be using two rope techniques unless you are carrying out a specific task where it's not safe like some sort of dangerous cut and then it is only applicable for that one specific task not your entire climb

 

That ruling doesn't say "You can climb single rope as long as you say that 2 rope isn't practical" 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Paddy1000111