Certificate of Competence in Chainsaw and Related Operations Review Consultation

[treediver]

Those students who come to the workplaces with all the right 'tickets' but a seem to lack some confidence/general allround ability is mainly down to the fact that all arb courses (at least college courses.. nd's.. certs..diplomas ect) only cover practical assesment as a small part of there curriculum. The real learning and experience can only be progressed in the work place. This applies even more to someone who has just spent a a few weeks becoming a climber, chainsaw maniac.. whatever..yes they know all the basic cuts / climbing techniques (though have probably forgotten them) , but without sustained practice over and over again..watching others and seeing how a team works together..then and only then will they become good.

I dont think altering nptc modules will change much apart from more annoying numbers to squash on the back of my id card .

[jpbeaver]

most of the young lads ive worked with cant even sharpen a saw properly let alone use one in a proffesional manner.

[Andy Collins]

Most the students I've seen come along, as is said, lack confidence, and this will only come with practise. Perhaps instead of rushing as many thru as possible in a year, the trade would be better served if trainees were on an apprenticeship scheme, doing each element in stages, learning and remembering as they go along, rather than trying to "cram" too much info into too little brain, on 2-3year programme?

[zzr1200]

"Certificate of Competence in ************* and Related Operations Review Consultation..."

 

 

Generally in most industries this translates into, we're changing the categories, introducing expiry dates, so you will have to line our pockets every few years from now on.

 

Oh and those of you that have being working for years you are not qualified any more....

 

PS. According to the NPTC framework if I wished to take their "use a chainsaw from/in a mewp cert" I would have to take their mewp operators course, even though I have an IPAF operator/demonstrator cert and repair them for a living. Its a pity these training bodies can't get their act together at times.

[puwer]

zzr1200 - Candidates must also hold a suitable competence certificate in operating the MEWP that is going to be used for the assessment. This

could be the “NPTC Level 2 Certificate of Competence in the Safe Use and Operation of Mobile Elevated Work Platforms” or an

alternative nationally recognised certificate. Assessors must have sight of this prior to commencing assessment. Candidates who cannot

demonstrate this should arrange to be assessed in the NPTC MEWP qualification by an approved NPTC assessor, at the same time as

this unit.

 

I am unsure where you got the information from that says you must have an NPTC qual as a pre-requiste for cs47, hope the info above helps.

 

Big A - could this approach be alined with a tiered type system, arborist completes level one (eg. cs30/31/32), has to complete a CPD log, hours worked log etc then can move onto level 2 eg. Cs38/39 etc?

 

Could we end up with groundworker, level one and level two arborist?

 

Treediver - a major push is a move towards the reduction of number of units and vastly improve content.

 

Jpbeaver - do you have any idea what the content of these three courses is? Are candidates assessed?

 

Edenarb - is it a possible idea to return to the previous assessment system, where the trainer also assessed the candidates? ITA? (Intergrated training and assessment)

[Andy Collins]

I think there is no reason why it ant be aligned, but I do feel an apprenticeship should bemore beneficial, as in most other trades

[Pete Mctree]

The tiered system sounds reasonable in principal, but it would involve reassesment which, unless there is some incentive i.e. reduced insurance would only incur more cost to either an individual or biz.

[zzr1200]

zzr1200 - Candidates must also hold a suitable competence certificate in operating the MEWP that is going to be used for the assessment. This

could be the “NPTC Level 2 Certificate of Competence in the Safe Use and Operation of Mobile Elevated Work Platforms” or an

alternative nationally recognised certificate. Assessors must have sight of this prior to commencing assessment. Candidates who cannot

demonstrate this should arrange to be assessed in the NPTC MEWP qualification by an approved NPTC assessor, at the same time as

this unit.

 

I am unsure where you got the information from that says you must have an NPTC qual as a pre-requiste for cs47, hope the info above helps.

 

(Intergrated training and assessment)

 

 

Copied directly from Capel Manor Web Site.

 

Level 2: Certificate of competence in the safe use and operation of mobile elevated work platforms (MEWPS)

This course will specifically address the use and operation of MEWPS for

Branch removal and tree pruning.

Duration: 2 days (pre-requisite cs 30,31)

Maximum number of candidates: 6

Courses are arranged on an ad hoc basis only. Contact us for details.

Training price: £580

NPTC Registration and Assessment price: £105

TOTAL PRICE: £685

Operate a chainsaw from a mobile elevated work platform (MEWP)

This unit covers the use of a chainsaw from a MEWP.

Duration: 1 day (pre-requisite cs 30,31 and Level 2: Certificate of competence in MEWPS)

Maximum number of candidates: 6

Courses are arranged on an ad hoc basis only. Contact us for details.

Training price: £220

NPTC Registration and Assessment price: £105

TOTAL PRICE: £325

 

 

No mention of an alternative qualification (I even asked them at their arb show this year), also I believe our mewp training costs are about £300-00 incl cert for a one day course, a bit different from...

 

Training price: £580

NPTC Registration and Assessment price: £105

TOTAL PRICE: £685

 

Then your operating a chainsaw from/in a mewp.

 

I know cs 30, 31 are required but it seems like lets think of a way to make money.

 

Ok your talking about cutting n dropping branches, not a lot different from steel demo from a mewp with a gas axe.

[Yorkshireman]

zzr sorry m8,

but your confusing your training provider( Capel ) with the assessment body (NPTc) two Hugely different beasts,

lantra is the standard setter in line with nptc guidleines the trainer / college implement them totally independantly, although the trainers need lantra certification & assessors need nptc qualifiication although both work within the same perimeters

Have a quiet chat with the tutor/ instructor.

[Quickthorn]

I've seen students come along, with tickets, who cant tie the basic knots, dont understand lowering techniques, and cant operate a saw, yet feel they're worth £100+ a day. Are we really improving training, or just creating more jobs for the training fraternity?? I know this isnt really constructive in line with the topic, but I feel this is a valid point.

 

Snap! My experience exactly, and it is a valid point.

 

I went through Merrist Wood's 10 week course in the last batch of students to be assessed for CS 20 21 and 22. That course was very broad, we covered a lot of stuff and saw and used a lot of gear. Some of us asked what the new cs units would mean, and they replied that they would have to cut significant portions out of the course to get everyone through the new units. The point is, the training process is suffering from severe inflation, as more and more time is needed to train and assess fewer and fewer skills.

 

Perhaps, as part of the consultation process, they can consider the effects on the industry of continually moving the goal posts. We set standards so that we can measure against them, and in that way we can work out how we are performing over time. But how can we do that if the standards we're measuring against are in constant motion?