Covid-19

[Stere]

 

 

Last sentence seem to ring very true....

Quote

'Lockdown sceptics' should be more sceptical of their scepticism

Deriving from Greek, scepticism means ‘to consider’ – but inexpert commentators are rarely suspicious of their own findings

 

 

 

Are you one of the “lockdown sceptics”? They are a vocal but largely inexpert minority of commentators who argue that Covid lockdowns are doing more harm than good, or don’t work at all. But is to believe that really to be sceptical?

The Greek skeptesthai means “to look out” or “consider” (“scope” as in “telescope” is from the same root). The ancient Sceptics, or “inquirers”, followed the heroic example of their inspiration Pyrrho, a man who was determined to withhold judgment on everything unless absolute certainty could be achieved. So much so that, on some accounts, his friends constantly had to prevent him from walking into the path of speeding wagons or off cliffs.

 

Since then, “scepticism” has also meant the philosophical doctrine that true knowledge of anything is impossible, or irreligiousness. In general modern use it is a reasonable sort of doubting, and one that arguably undergirds all of science. Political scepticism, though, is often oddly one-sided. Global heating “sceptics”, for example, reject the consensus in climate science, yet they appear naively credulous of all contrary claims by cranks or shills. So, too, might one diagnose the “lockdown sceptics” as being insufficiently suspicious of their own supposed evidence.

 

 

 

 

[Rob D]

10 minutes ago, Stere said:

 

 

Last sentence seem to ring very true....

 

 

 

 

 

Does it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[trigger_andy]

30 minutes ago, Scottish Cleaning Service said:

That's why I have to right a book so you can understand it all.

Remember to use spell check when you write this best seller of yours.....

 

 

[trigger_andy]

Just now, Scottish Cleaning Service said:

I'm not that daft, I have a customer who is an author so he is rewriting it. We are nearly finished and getting to the good bit. Might release it at a chapter at a time, free to download, will let you all know when. 😉 Have you had a bump in the head? You have lost your Bitterness! 🤔 

Not that daft? You've bumbled around from one failed enterprise after another and now find yourself at the bottom rung and think that anyone would be remotely interested in reading about it. 

 

You seem to be confused as to who has had this bump on the head. 

[trigger_andy]

1 hour ago, Scottish Cleaning Service said:

That's good trigger, I thought you had a stroke or something? When I started my window cleaning 3 years ago I went on the forum and a ginger guy continually took the p1ss out of me. A few years later a guy on the forum asked if it bothered me. I said that guy was the best thing that happened to me because I used it as reverse psychology and every time he abused me I bought another bit of equipment. 3 years later I have one of the strongest businesses on the window forum. I just copied all the guys with the best businesses and looked for common denominators. When one has been a fireman and turned 55 then you become thick skinned and use the abuse as wind pushing you forward. 😉

Ok then. What’s your username and the forum? I know a few Window Cleaners down your way. Window cleanings very territorial and if you’re the Billy Big Balls you say you are it will easily be verified.  

[Youngstu]

2 hours ago, trigger_andy said:

There's a lot to get there there and Im short on time as Im doing some electrical testing on Deck. 

 

The gist of it seems to be; Yes Teachers are left of center and yes they hate the Tories but no they'd not put politic above the welfare of the children. Which is entirely at odd with the Unions that represent them. 

 

I assume you're familiar, or at least aware of who Chris McGovern is? He was previously a Head Teacher yet has real concerns about the militant Teachers Union and how they are weaponising Covid for political aims. I think you're intentionally downplaying the role and reach the unions have with teachers and playing on what you seem to agree on a bunch of Tory hating lefties willing to do whatever it takes to embarrass the Tories and using the Children as collateral. 

 

I think the vast majority in the private sector have seen their real life wages diminish over the last 10 years. I know of no one who's had a pay rise of any substance. Im not sure the same can be said for the public sector. I also think there is a number of reasons mature teachers left, particularly male teachers and I dont think the blame can be placed at either Parties feet although I'm sure there is a great number who'd point their finger at Blair. 

 

The Oil and Gas Unions in the UK are entirely toothless thee days. Why anyone would continue to pay their dues to them I have no idea. Norway on the other hand is much more unionised, very efficient and have a powerful voice. The members all seem to look after each other regardless of employer and will strike if the Oil Companies are not playing ball. Its meant that we've kept our working conditions during a number of down turns, maintained schedules that our employers would dearly love to remove and kept things like seniority in place, meaning that the Oil Companies cant just lay off the better paid employee in favour of the cheaper and up and coming new hands. With 12 years on a Norwegian Contract I have a fairly sizable cushion if there is lay-offs as anyone with less time in the company that me (with a few exceptions) has to be let go first. 

 

But I know where you're going with this. If I have such a strong union behind me, fighting my corner why should the Teachers not have the same thing? Well, for one I tend to find that in the public sector you're far better looked after than in the private sector. Wages, pensions, hours and expectations are all generally lower in the private sector. But the main reason for me is the almost Hamas way in which they are using Children as human shields to further not so much better conditions for the Teachers but for purely political reasons. And what a golden opportunity Covid has proved to be for them. 

I really don't think that I am trying to downplay the role of the unions. Yes some of them are definitely up for a scrap with the tories at any given opportunity but they really don't have the influence that they used to. As I said previously they had little to no effect on preventing the incoming academies etc rewriting contracts, conditions of service, pay gradings etc. As such many teachers pay them little heed. I don't think my house is unusual in seeing any union correspondence heading directly from the letterbox to the recycling box. But as they still receive their dues they clearly have to be seen to be doing something. When there have been union imposed strikes in schools it's certainly not been the case of teachers following their union directives, either for financial reasons or because they don't want their students to miss out on their education. However I would have thought that it's absolutely right that they are fighting for the teachers to maintain their working conditions as they signed up to them. Back when there was a big reform maybe 10 years ago they changed the retirement age and having taught for about 8 years my wife all of a sudden had the same number of years until her retirement age as she'd had when she'd started. 

 

I hadn't hear of Chris McGovern, but having looked him up and his Campaign for Real Education. There are some aspects that I can agree with like greatly increasing the value of teachers in our society, which would potentially draw in more highly qualified graduates, but much of what he says and campaigns for wouldn't look out of place in the Daily Mail. 

 

Why did the mature and in particular male teachers choose to leave? Blair was definitely not loved by most left leaning teachers (being seen as a red Tory), although in the Labour years teacher pay went from awful to quite good, but Gove's tenure as education minister sent many more of them packing due to pay, conditions and his decisions regarding changes to the curriculum away from that advised by experts to what worked well for him. 

 

It certainly sounds like the unions provide you with fantastic protection for your job, pay, conditions etc! You may be right that those working in the public sector are often in a better position in a number of ways but surely that's no reason for them not to receive a similar degree of protection from those at the top making decisions (especially when those decisions are often political rather than in the best interest of the customer/staff/end user or in this case children).

 

It's far from ideal I'll agree for our children to be in the situation that they are now, but the children of the key workers and those considered to be vulnerable (and a lot can fit into that category) are in school (along with a lot of teachers). There are tens of thousands of teachers spending huge amounts of time doing everything they can to provide the children who are at home with as good an education as they can in the most difficult of circumstances, desperate to get back to face to face teaching. I think claiming that they are using children as human shields is very misleading, if anybody is being used in that way it would be the vulnerable staff members or the vulnerable parents/grandparents of the children. They are the reasons that the schools are closed, they are the ones being protected from Covid, not the children at school. 

[trigger_andy]

Just now, Youngstu said:

Back when there was a big reform maybe 10 years ago they changed the retirement age and having taught for about 8 years my wife all of a sudden had the same number of years until her retirement age as she'd had when she'd started. 

 

Was this more aligned with the Private sector? 

 

Just now, Youngstu said:

, but much of what he says and campaigns for wouldn't look out of place in the Daily Mail. 

You mean he's one of the few Conservative exceptions? 

 

Just now, Youngstu said:

but surely that's no reason for them not to receive a similar degree of protection from those at the top making decisions (especially when those decisions are often political rather than in the best interest of the customer/staff/end user or in this case children).

100% agree. But this is not what we're seeing though is it? Its purely political and nothing more. Well, lets see how it pans out and see if the majority of the Teachers will follow the Unions or will they openly voice their objections to them being used as political pawns with the Children as the fodder. Considering the vast majority are Left leaning and as you say hate the Tories I find it very hard to believe that they will not go along with the Union or will meekly keep their heads down at the very least. The thing of it is though the Unions are making out that its for the safely of the Teachers(against Scientific evidence) So if you're wrong and the Teachers do kowtow to the unions your response will be aligned to that. Its really a win-win situation for you as regardless the outcome you'll have an (on the surface) justifiable response.  

 

6 minutes ago, Youngstu said:

There are tens of thousands of teachers spending huge amounts of time doing everything they can to provide the children who are at home with as good an education as they can in the most difficult of circumstances, desperate to get back to face to face teaching.

So you claim, and how do you verify that? It genuinely seems like they are using every trick in the book to avoid doin their jobs. Im not so naïve as to believe the headline grabbing stories are the norm but they are popping up with increasing frequency. Stories such as Teachers refusing to use zoom as its an invasion of their privacy. Teachers pushing back hard against working in the summer holidays. Yes, I understand there is a pay issue here. But supposedly we're all to make huge sacrifices just now. Perhaps this is the Teachers? And I dont believe you can go into such a job and treat it purely as a source of revenue when you have the futures of many children resting in your hands. Again in the Private sector working many hours after your 7.5 hour day ends is not unusual. Even here in Norway when I was office based over-time was included in the salary, some did zero hours OT, some work to 11 each night, it just depends on the project. And right now the project for these heel draggers should be the welfare of the children and not political point scoring or using this crisis as leverage to improve their conditions. Now is really not the time for that. 

 

14 minutes ago, Youngstu said:

I think claiming that they are using children as human shields is very misleading,

You genuinely dont feel the more ardent members of the Teachers Unions are doing just that? Really? 

[woodwizzard]

Petition: Do not rollout Covid-19 vaccine passports

PETITION.PARLIAMENT.UK

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We want the Government to commit to not rolling out any e-vaccination status/immunity passport to the British public. Such passports could be used to restrict the rights of people...

 

[trigger_andy]

Just now, woodwizzard said:

Petition: Do not rollout Covid-19 vaccine passports

PETITION.PARLIAMENT.UK

---

We want the Government to commit to not rolling out any e-vaccination status/immunity passport to the British public. Such passports could be used to restrict the rights of people...

 

If you believe even a fraction of the other links you post up then surely you know how utterly futile such a petition is? 

 

 

[woodwizzard]

9 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

If you believe even a fraction of the other links you post up then surely you know how utterly futile such a petition is? 

 

 

Never mind any of that, the real issue is, where are my gloves!!!!🤣