Should a referendum on Scottish independence only include people living in Scotland?

[David Cropper]

1 minute ago, trigger_andy said:

Im in the North East and although I want independence I dont want the SNP dystopian version of it. I think the Oil industry plays a large part in the East Coast voting for the Tories and happy to remain in the Union. 

 

Now, where Trident forced to leave the Clyde the numerous Oil Fields that could be opened as the result could turn Glasgow or indeed the West Coast into a second Aberdeen/East Coast in regards to prosperity. 

Agree entirely. I remember watching about 5 years ago on BBC Scotland an SNP  West coast councillor, or whatever he was, an old rabid sod, that if the subs left the Clyde then oil would be the lifeline of the West coast. His reasoning was, that,  if my memory is correct, the subs would stop access to the oil. The mask slipped with him, so angry that he was almost spitting venom. 

[trigger_andy]

Is that why Mrs Kranky wants to scrap trident? I’d never for a minute thought of it like that! Interesting 

I don’t think its the SNP’s main reasoning. But having the UK’s Nuclear deterrent placed on the Clyde it means most of Scotland would be wiped out where it to be attacked likewise. I see the reasoning for having it where it is, low population density, deep water etc. But is it right a country that seems to want completely rid of Trident has it forced on them?

Personally I think it’s ludicrous to get rid of Trident. But I do think Scotland should have a say if we have to continue to house it. And if we opened up the Oil Fields there I think it would invigorate the whole coast. So denying the West Coast this Oil Boom, and revenue then to continue to call Scotland a financial drain is a slap in the face really.

[Richard 1234]

16 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

 

I don’t think its the SNP’s main reasoning. But having the UK’s Nuclear deterrent placed on the Clyde it means most of Scotland would be wiped out where it to be attacked likewise. I see the reasoning for having it where it is, low population density, deep water etc. But is it right a country that seems to want completely rid of Trident has it forced on them?

Personally I think it’s ludicrous to get rid of Trident. But I do think Scotland should have a say if we have to continue to house it. And if we opened up the Oil Fields there I think it would invigorate the whole coast. So denying the West Coast this Oil Boom, and revenue then to continue to call Scotland a financial drain is a slap in the face really.

 

They are all fair points. It would be difficult moving it because of them too.

unless there was somewhere even further out the way up north even further? 
mom the other hand north west England is in need of investment why not put it there (again no idea if it would even work)

 

as for the oil does trident really ruin it or is it just much more difficult (so uneconomical) with it being there. Again no idea on that as all I know about oil and gas is it keep me warm keeps me from starving and gets me where I want to go!

[Stere]

Why does the UK need trident?

 

Mutual assured destruction if france decides too use nucs during the third world war  in 2052??

 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Stere

[trigger_andy]

19 minutes ago, Richard 1234 said:

They are all fair points. It would be difficult moving it because of them too.

unless there was somewhere even further out the way up north even further? 
mom the other hand north west England is in need of investment why not put it there (again no idea if it would even work)

 

as for the oil does trident really ruin it or is it just much more difficult (so uneconomical) with it being there. Again no idea on that as all I know about oil and gas is it keep me warm keeps me from starving and gets me where I want to go!

 

It might be almost insurmountable to move it outside of Scotland. Where else in the UK is there such deep Fjord-like 'firths'? The Clyde is the deepest at 164m. But then maybe the UK should be much more grateful that we house it for them? Not just a token 'thank you' but an entire step-change away from seeing Scotland as a parasite on the UK, it does piss many people off. Im not sure how much revenue having it where it is actually brings? Some for sure, but I feel not that much. 

 

But its just another reason in my mind why Westminster is petrified about losing its control of Scotland. 

 

Id have to look on-line again as regards the blocking of the development of the Oil Fields in the Firth of Clyde and Scotland's portion of the Irish Sea.  A quick google brought this interesting article up;

 

WWW.BUSINESSFORSCOTLAND.COM

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The Scottish Government has confirmed that oil exploration off south-west Scotland could go ahead post-independence...

 

Did MoD block oil boom in the Firth of Clyde? - Sunday Post

WWW.SUNDAYPOST.COM

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A potential North Sea-style oil boom off the Ayrshire coast was blocked by worried defence chiefs, a former MP has claimed.

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by trigger_andy

[trigger_andy]

12 minutes ago, Stere said:

Why does the UK need trident?

Im not sure to whom you're directing this coment to but I doubt you'll find anyone here that thinks we dont need it. 

[Stere]

Just wondering why people think its needed, for a possible future scenario that it would actually be used, or by  having it would prevent another country from attacking the UK.

 

 

 

[Richard 1234]

21 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

 

It might be almost insurmountable to move it outside of Scotland. Where else in the UK is there such deep Fjord-like 'firths'? The Clyde is the deepest at 164m. But then maybe the UK should be much more grateful that we house it for them? Not just a token 'thank you' but an entire step-change away from seeing Scotland as a parasite on the UK, it does piss many people off. Im not sure how much revenue having it where it is actually brings? Some for sure, but I feel not that much. 

 

But its just another reason in my mind why Westminster is petrified about losing its control of Scotland. 

 

Id have to look on-line again as regards the blocking of the development of the Oil Fields in the Firth of Clyde and Scotland's portion of the Irish Sea.  A quick google brought this interesting article up;

 

WWW.BUSINESSFORSCOTLAND.COM

---

The Scottish Government has confirmed that oil exploration off south-west Scotland could go ahead post-independence...

 

Did MoD block oil boom in the Firth of Clyde? - Sunday Post

WWW.SUNDAYPOST.COM

---

A potential North Sea-style oil boom off the Ayrshire coast was blocked by worried defence chiefs, a former MP has claimed.

 

The reason I asked re oil was that I don’t understand why trident blocks it?

surely a nuclear sub can avoid oil rigs/pipelines? Stranger things have happened. Must be security?

[Baldbloke]

 
If there is an Indi#2 there would have to be something put in place for stop another one for atleast a generation. Also, we should have a referendum to re-join the Union as often as we've had one to leave. Fairs fair right?

Rather like the last 3.5 years of instability over Brexit, the SNP are doing untold damage by not accepting the last referendum on independence and insisting on another. Investment and emigration are closely tied to stability. After all who in their right mind is going to invest in anything with the spectre of a far left SNP government getting full autonomous tax varying powers, or being subject to rejoining the EU with its insistence of tax and regulatory compliance? This when your English trading partner is free of that regulatory compliance as well as being able to set corporate tax low enough to draw in foreign investment. Then add on a new and necessary Scottish untested currency and a hard border to fully isolate Scotland and make it uncompetitive.

[trigger_andy]

Just wondering why people think its needed, for a possible future scenario that it would actually be used, or by  having it would prevent another country from attacking the UK.
 
 
 

You don’t think it’s needed? Mutual assured destruction is an awful way of doing things but what option do we have? I’d say the only reason we’ve not gone to full scale war with China and Russia is because of it. We just fight little girl proxy’s around the globe to show who has the bigger tagder.