Should a referendum on Scottish independence only include people living in Scotland?

[Mark Bolam]

38 minutes ago, Mull said:

 

Shame really, probably your worst post on arbtalk Mark.

 

Just calling it how I see it mate.

If you can point out the bits where I’m most wrong I’m always prepared to listen to a good argument.

[Mull]

When I put my cross in the referendum box it was in or out. As you said Andy, there was no deal mentioned, and Remain MPs prior to the referendum even stated we’d be out of the Customs Union. And then when us leavers were stupid enough to say we’d leave, the same Remain MPs changed the game plan by insisting on a deal and remaining in close alignment.

So Mull, the Brexit plan to my mind was to walk without any deal and to retrospectively have talks. With Boris stating there will be no EU regulatory alignment I’m as happy as a pig in shit.[emoji1303]

Again, all about your own agenda!
Surely you can see a counter argument, and understand it?

[Mull]

Just calling it how I see it mate.
.

Hard-to see it from a Scottish perspective from England mark?

[trigger_andy]

Again, all about your own agenda!
Surely you can see a counter argument, and understand it?

There is no counter-argument to a national referendum where the majority wish to leave the Union. It’s really as simple as that. End of

[trigger_andy]

Hard-to see it from a Scottish perspective from England mark?

I for one say he’s called it spot on. I think you’re bang out of order here. But I like that! The forum would be a boring place if there was not a few cranks posting off the wall mid-90’s references.

[Baldbloke]

Again, all about your own agenda!
Surely you can see a counter argument, and understand it?

Not my agenda, but the one I’m most comfortable with. I do see the counter argument and the reasons for it, but cannot accept the baggage that needs to go with it. A soft Brexit is the absolute worst possible outcome. Tied to regulatory alignment, tax alignment, Customs Union and having to follow laws made by the ECJ is exactly where the EU wants us to be, so we cannot advantageously compete on a world stage. It would totally kill off the benefits of departing, which is why I’m pleased to hear BJ stating that we won’t be aligned. Canada isn’t, has a deal, so why should we be hamstrung in such a fashion?

[Mull]

There is no counter-argument to a national referendum where the majority wish to leave the Union. It’s really as simple as that. End of

What? The minority?

[trigger_andy]

What? The minority?

What are you taking about?

Scotland voted to stay in the union. That makes Scotland apart of the UK. The U.K. voted for Brexit.

Game over. You lost!

Twice it would seem.

[Guest Gimlet]

Trouble is Andy, it's the squeaky wheel that gets the oil. 

 

The SNP's squeaking drowns everything else out in Scottish politics.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Gimlet

[daltontrees]

On 21/12/2019 at 11:12, trigger_andy said:

What point am I missing? If you have 100 votes and one person has 45% of those votes and one person has 25% and another 20% and a person with 5% and so on what individual has the majority of votes? I'm going to assume you will argue no one. Where as in a democracy the person with the majority is clearly the person with 45%. 

 

I simply do not agree with your assessment of FPTP and as much as your welcome to it no one really cares.  Its not gonna change anything. 

I'll tell you the point. You are incorrectly using the word 'majority'. It doesn't mean 'the most of'. It's not an argument, it's a matter of the correct use of words. In the example you put, the correct answer is indeed no-one, not because I would argue it but because it's factually correct. Your rhetoric would be clearer to follow if you don't mix up majority of votes with majority of seats. And FPTP is an analogy that only works for the constituency votes. In parliament government comes from most past the post i.e most of the first past the posts. Positively primitive, in my opinion, as it gives two linked opportunities to alienate large parts of society.

 

Anyway, some people care. When the new scottish parliament had the opportunity to design a system form scratch it introduced a system that is more inclusive. Because enough people cared.