An Idiot's guide to Ancient Woodland management

[difflock]

TVI, an outstanding thread, and (this coming from someone who only/mostly posts non-tree related shite)

EXACTLY

What any arb or tree related forum should contain.

Kudos good Sir,

Keep up the good work.

marcus, the really quite envious.

[openspaceman]

7 hours ago, the village idiot said:

 

There has been some cost to him over the course of the last few years but it has not been huge, and the work has been increasing the value and utility of his asset into the future.

 

We view it as a mutually beneficial project and the owner is keen to persuade other Woodland owners to consider similar set up's.

 

As long as the "understanding" has its basis in a contract this is fine, each party knows what  their consideration from the contract is.

 

I too managed a similar sized broadleaved woodland, for over 20 years, on the basis of a gentleman's agreement with the landowner. It worked fine except  he gave the estate to his eldest daughter and her husband took over. I lost only a few thousand pounds in work in hand, so it mostly hurt my ego rather than my pocket and I had plenty of other contracting work at the time.

 

The other thing is there was talk on one of the small woodland groups of a person in a situation like yours being seen to be the "occupier" of the woodland, which, depending on the dedication status of the woodland, could mean produce would not attract any tax on sale. I don't know how HMRC would view any added value element on the sale.

 

Great thread and good luck

 

 

[the village idiot]

5 hours ago, sandspider said:

Surprised to see you in normal clothes, was the gimp outfit having it's yearly wash?!

Oi sandspider! This is officially a non silly thread.

 

?

[the village idiot]

3 hours ago, difflock said:

TVI, an outstanding thread, and (this coming from someone who only/mostly posts non-tree related shite)

EXACTLY

What any arb or tree related forum should contain.

Kudos good Sir,

Keep up the good work.

marcus, the really quite envious.

Thank you Marcus. Really glad you are enjoying it.

 

Plenty more to get through as yet!

[the village idiot]

3 hours ago, tree-fancier123 said:

I've seen a small area with massive alders and ash, any windthrow just left leaning at all sorts of angles, not a single footpath, ivy nearly to the top of most trees, ferns and surprisingly not all that much bramble. I imagine this is what the dinosaurs knew as home, long before the mammals with opposable thumb and forefinger. We aren't the only creatures that manage woodlands - once a beaver gets to work the woodland can be considered to be under active management.

 

Great pictures tree-fancier.

 

Perhaps I should have been a bit more specific with my definition of unmanaged. What I mean is un-altered by human activity at any time since the last ice age.

[the village idiot]

2 hours ago, openspaceman said:

As long as the "understanding" has its basis in a contract this is fine, each party knows what  their consideration from the contract is.

 

I too managed a similar sized broadleaved woodland, for over 20 years, on the basis of a gentleman's agreement with the landowner. It worked fine except  he gave the estate to his eldest daughter and her husband took over. I lost only a few thousand pounds in work in hand, so it mostly hurt my ego rather than my pocket and I had plenty of other contracting work at the time.

 

The other thing is there was talk on one of the small woodland groups of a person in a situation like yours being seen to be the "occupier" of the woodland, which, depending on the dedication status of the woodland, could mean produce would not attract any tax on sale. I don't know how HMRC would view any added value element on the sale.

 

Great thread and good luck

 

 

Really important points openspaceman. Thank you.

 

What I have in place with the Woodland owner amounts to little more than a gentleman's agreement. This is perhaps something I ought to remedy ASAP.

 

The owner has a reputation locally for being very loyal, but circumstances can certainly change very rapidly.

 

The tax point is also very interesting. I don't know where I stand on this either. I had assumed that the income on any Woodland product I sell is taxed as normal. I shall do some digging.

 

Very useful post!

[the village idiot]

WHEELS.

 

Now I had made a start in the Wood I needed to think getting some appropriate machinery to help with all the jobs.

 

This was a bit of a problem as I was not only short on money but am also terrible at buying the right stuff! I have a long history of purchasing completely inappropriate machinery.

 

The list includes an ancient crop sprayer, part converted into a massively heavy pick up type thing which was no use to man nor beast. An enormous chain swipe which was not only far too big for my tractor, but also too wide to fit over the small bridge, making half of the Woodland unmowable, and most recently a ludicrous sparkly blue Mercedes truck converted into a living van which I haven't slept in once!

 

 

 

This living van is actually up for sale if anyone is interested Eggs.

 

I can email a file with tons of photos. It even has a log burner!

 

What I really needed to get me up and running in the Wood was a low impact tractor and trailer. After a bit of searching around I settled on a teeny Alpine tractor and a small timber trailer originally designed for quad bikes.

 

 

 

Here it is with a new set of much more appropriate tyres:

 

 

[trigger_andy]

2 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

WHEELS.

 

Now I had made a start in the Wood I needed to think getting some appropriate machinery to help with all the jobs.

 

This was a bit of a problem as I was not only short on money but am also terrible at buying the right stuff! I have a long history of purchasing completely inappropriate machinery.

 

The list includes an ancient crop sprayer, part converted into a massively heavy pick up type thing which was no use to man nor beast. An enormous chain swipe which was not only far too big for my tractor, but also too wide to fit over the small bridge, making half of the Woodland unmowable, and most recently a ludicrous sparkly blue Mercedes truck converted into a living van which I haven't slept in once!

 

 

 

This living van is actually up for sale if anyone is interested Eggs.

 

I can email a file with tons of photos. It even has a log burner!

 

What I really needed to get me up and running in the Wood was a low impact tractor and trailer. After a bit of searching around I settled on a teeny Alpine tractor and a small timber trailer originally designed for quad bikes.

 

 

 

Here it is with a new set of much more appropriate tyres:

 

 

I like the Trailer! Im on the hunt for one like that if you ever see another pop up. 

 

Oh, and great thread.   Reading with interest. 

[openspaceman]

31 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

 

 

What I have in place with the Woodland owner amounts to little more than a gentleman's agreement. This is perhaps something I ought to remedy ASAP.

Okay you need to sort this and it may well worry the owner that a formal agreement might appear to lose him some sovereignty of his asset, the agreement will make it clear you are not asking for a share, so your consideration should include payment  for the benefits you bring to the wood and hence the owners capital. You should be aware of what benefits you are doing for him, his consideration, and the tax position it puts him in is worth a lot more than you might think. Especially if it means his estate now benefits from being accepted as a commercial woodland, as it is then IHT free.

31 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

 

The tax point is also very interesting. I don't know where I stand on this either. I had assumed that the income on any Woodland product I sell is taxed as normal. I shall do some digging.

 

 

You could do with some input from a land agent that understands tax law, a brief google in fact suggests that the sale of timber is only tax free up to the point it is presented for sale in the round, so sawmilling, preparing Swedish candles, coppice products or even sharpening stakes becomes taxable as income.

 

In the same vein it looks like the costs of harvesting may not be deductible, better advice needed.

[the village idiot]

1 minute ago, trigger_andy said:

I like the Trailer! Im on the hunt for one like that if you ever see another pop up. 

 

Oh, and great thread.   Reading with interest. 

Thanks Andy.

 

The trailer is made by TCF engineering. They will make you one to your own spec. My trailer has beefed up axles for a larger payload compared to their standard model and slide in bolsters.