In a bit of a pickle. Looking for similar experiences. And possible legal advice

[Guest Gimlet]

There has never been any standardisation with corrugated sheeting. Different makes have different profiles. The modern cement fibre sheets rarely fit old asbestos ones though due to a gauging difference between metric and imperial. 

 

If you can't find an old asbestos piece to match you could have a piece of aluminium pressed to fit. You may have to remove one of the other ridges as a pattern.

You could possibly get a leadworker to dress a piece of code 4 lead to fit tight. I could do that myself quite easily but it may not bond well. That asbestos will have lost its outer coating by now and it'll probably be absorbing water so nothing will stick to it.

Either way rain is going to blow up underneath that flat sheet so you need to find something that's a proper fit or the phone will keep ringing.

 

 

[joshuatree]

12 hours ago, tree77 said:

Hi There,

 

Always seems the way, spend hours on a take down, break nothing till the end but doesn't help any.

Putting right what you have damaged is always the best way.

Might be a little careful with the roof, might be asbestos?

 

It doesn't seem that strange size/pattern, don't think it would matter if the material was different as long as it fits the corrugated sheet profile, possible 2 or 3'' profile.

 

 

Yes exactly always at the end and it was a Friday. I am trying to put right as I would hate for someone to think i was trying to shaft them. It's literally only the ridge sheets that are hard to find. You can get flat sheets in the 3 inch profile. Thanks

12 hours ago, daveatdave said:

 

Marley Eternit Profile 3'' Fibre Cement Sheet Natural Grey - 3050mm | Roofing Superstore

WWW.ROOFINGSUPERSTORE.CO.UK

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Marley Eternit fibre cement profiled roof sheets 3" profile from roofing superstore, your online roofing specialists.

Fibre Cement Close Fitting Ridge (Natural Grey) - Two Piece | Roofing Superstore

WWW.ROOFINGSUPERSTORE.CO.UK

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Fibre Cement Close Fitting Ridge (Natural Grey) - Two Piece For application with roof pitches from 5° to 45°, both for...

here seems quite a few listings for the 3 inch sheets have you asked if they do the ridges 

 

Hi yeh I've spoken to roofing superstore. They were helpful in telling me that no one makes the 3 inch ridge sheets anymore. They did however recommend using a self adhesive lead sheet roll that could possibly be moulded into a corrugated shape. which may be an option. 

thanks 

12 hours ago, monkeybusiness said:

To be honest, your repair looks crap and stands out like a bulldog’s balls. I’d not be happy either if I was the landlord (I’m sorry to say!).

 

I don’t see why your insurer wouldn’t cover this if you suspect the repair is going to end up expensive - it might be worth making your broker aware of the situation and explaining you are working towards sorting it without claiming, but there is a possibility you may have to pay for a new ridge (can’t be that expensive in reality surely?). 

I know it doesn't look good and have acknowledged this here and to the client. Again i'm looking for a solution but at least his garage is dry right now. essentially the buck stops with me but it was the roofers repair not mine. I wouldn't have done it like this. You are right though I will be getting my brokers opinion today. 

Thanks

p.s Are you the monkey business in cheshire? Think I used to see you guys around when I worked for Eurotrees out of Alvanley.

12 hours ago, petercb said:

 

2 Piece Adjustable Ridges Close Fitting - AJW Distribution

AJWDISTRIBUTION.COM

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These ridge fittings meet the requirements of HSG-33 Health and Safety Roof Work Manual. Please note any ridges fitted to the old conventional method DO NOT meet the...

 

Might be suitable

 

Wrong type of ridge as its 2 parts. The whole ridge and possibly roof would have to be replaced. 

Thanks

11 hours ago, spuddog0507 said:

there will be 100s of them ridges about round the country, and i would say you aint tryed that hard to find one ? there is posts above with them for sale in cement fiber but the ones on that roof will be asey, ring a someone who dismantls and removes asbestos they will bin loads of em, or to put a flat plastic coated ridge on, as used on box profile roofs would cost you about £40 for 3 8ft lengths and a couple of hrs to do it, not that expensive really,

Not sure if you've meant to come across as confrontational as you have so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. As mentioned above it's very easy to find the flat sheets in the 3 inch profile. If there are 100s of these 3 inch ridges at an easy glance please send me a link so I can buy one. I have

rang suppliers, manufacturers, reclamation yards, gumtree/eBay and roofers. not one has a 3inch ridge.

I have found a asbestos repair specialist company this morning though so will try them in a minute.

Thanks

11 hours ago, openspaceman said:

As others have pointed out there are ridge profiles available but they  come in two  pieces with a rounded ridge.

 

Normally the owner has no right for the repair to be a "betterment" but in this case he may be right to insist on a uniform repair. Sure your premium will go up but you have mitigated the loss with your repair and the legalities will get messy if you cannot reach an agreement.

 

As was asked, are you sure it is a post 80s roof and not asbestos reinforced? If it is you must not disturb any more or it will end up with a new roof and disposal costs (which are about double inert landfill charges).

 

We had vandals throw a brick through an asbestos reinforced garage roof so I glued the pieces back together and my mate used a patch of torched on roofing to make it watertight and fit the profile.

Obviously I want to avoid legalities and if it comes to that I will see what the insurance says. I just think that for such a small hole a whole ridge seems excessive. and as said before its not exactly a georgian manor house nor is it affecting anyones living standards or immediate safety.

Thanks

[Guest Gimlet]

11 minutes ago, doobin said:

When my staff and I did the non notifiable asbestos course, we were told that transporting  asbestos as a business was totally illegal. Homeowners might get away with it, but probably only as the council would rather they take the odd bit to the tip rather than bury it. No way would OP be allowed to drop off a transit of asbestos at the tip, and the best price I had for a small asbestos skip was £800 plus vat. If a smaller amount then you can get a collection via sealed tipper van, but still usually over £500 

Correct. Cement bonded asbestos is treated as toxic waste. In theory it's stable as long as each piece remains intact but once broken fibres are released. For this reason it's an offence to bury it because asbestos fibres can potentially enter the water course. 

In fact, unbroken old asbestos sheets are also dangerous because, as I mentioned above, the outer lamination deteriorates over time and the fibres become exposed. Asbestos roofing slates are particularly vulnerable to this and you need to be very careful stripping old asbestos slate roofs in very dry conditions because just rubbing the surface releases fibres. 

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Gimlet

[joshuatree]

34 minutes ago, Steve Bullman said:

One of my website clients specialise in flat roof repair and asbestos encapsulation. I thought they may be able to offer some advice so dropped them an email.

 

'As others have said I would look at getting a plastic version in the same profile, notably GRP it can then be painted a light grey to blend in. It’s a bit OTT in my opinion and accidents do happen so I feel for the guy there will also be as others have mentioned reclaimed where someone has taken them down in full sheets available on places like ebay.'

Thanks Steve that would be a great help.

[joshuatree]

3 hours ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

That is a pickle - but (hopefully) not unpicklable.

 

If you sent pics to these guys I'm pretty sure they could match you up a replacement piece.  

Home | Kenyon Canopy

KENYONCANOPY.CO.UK

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That roof must be 20-30 years old?  It probably doesn't have a manufacturer's mark still visible which would define it either as or not containing asbestos - so it would default to the presumption that it does (unless lab tested otherwise.) Lab test a small sample (£20-30?) might actually be a good move if no manufacturer's mark is visible - it could have a massive impact upon accurate costing of replacement.  A full replacement is wholly unreasonable but your roofer's temporary repair is pretty poor - as anything other than a first aid waterproof repair.

 

A full replacement with box profile would be the best bet for the landlord - but that ain't your lookout.  

 

What would be reasonable?  Total cost of replacement £X divided by total life expectancy (maybe 20-25yrs) divided by % of damage your are responsible for seems like a reasonable £ figure to me.  The thing would have needed doing soon enough anyway although probably not quite yet.

 

He can't insist that you go to your insurer - that's entirely your choice.  He can however take a civil action for damages - but would he really?  He'd have all the up front costs and the potential that the judgement might end up being something like the equation above - not worth the effort.

 

You seem to have made all reasonable efforts thus far to reach a mutually agreeable solution which would be in your favour if it went to mediation or, ultimately to court.

 

It's after the event and doesn't help your scenario (and I've just had similar with a shitty old greenhouse only held up by ivy which was directly under the tree for dismantle) but having experienced the professional affront to my dignity of breaking 1 or 2 panes, I will never again accept liability for such an obstruction (old, knackered, 1 sneeze and it breaks) under a tree.  They can either board it up at their own expense or accept liability for accidental damage arising from normal professional behaviour.  Not so much a screaming howler, but a genuine mishap.  

 

I hope you can find a replacement piece - hopefully Kenyon Canopy will have something - fit the replacement and say that's your lot.

 

 

 

 

 

This is the most useful response so far thanks. I will give kenyon a call and send some photos over.

 

I agree I think civil action wouldn't really go in his favour either as the rest of the roof is fine and as you say probably very old and in time for a replacement. I would still rather keep it out of any legal civil disputes tho. 

 

I will write down that equation if it comes to anything like that though.

 

Part of me wishes that the damage was bigger (obviously no damage would be better) at least then I could justify the insurance claim.  

[joshuatree]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I'll see what I can do with the info provided.

[JonnyRFT]

1 hour ago, joshuatree said:

no I'm not entirely sure tbh. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by scribe either. do you mean create a corrugated pecie of wood to mould the the metal to? sorry I'm not the most handy person at DIY. This is me attempting to build things....

 

  

It’s definitely asbestos reinforced cement sheets. Be careful around this issue, even though it’s minor damage, if you’re working on more than 1m2 of white asbestos, then it becomes notifiable works. The whole thing will need replacing ideally with a plastic, polycarbonate material in terms of low cost alternatives. But, removing and disposing of asbestos waste will need a licensed contractor even when it’s encapsulated in cement. 
 

Basically, just don’t carry out too much work on the roof because it could come back and bite you. Even in its current state, you should have a minimum of Asbestos Awareness Cat A to be even modifying and repairing the damage.

Edited November 13, 2019 by JonnyRFT
Spelling

[Mick Dempsey]

I put a hole in a roof like that, as usual discontinued line, no longer made in that profile etc. (before the internet so lots of driving around fruitlessly)

 

Turned out to be asbestos and had to replace the whole roof on insurance.

 

In all honesty it was no big deal, premiums didn’t increase iirc.

 

If it gets too much, throw it at your insurers, that’s what you’re paying for.

[monkeybusiness]

Yeah, we are in Cheshire. 

 

I’d seriously price up a new ridge in a plastic/box profile/onduline (whatever is cheapest basically) as you may find it is cheaper and easier than the hassle of getting a match with the existing. You’d need to agree it with the landlord but they should be happy with a new ridge if it looks tidy, whether it is a match to the rest of the roof or not. 

 

I hate this sort of thing - not only do you end up with an unplanned cost but the hassle and general fannying around are even more of an inconvenience in my opinion. One of my lads ripped the handle off an old cast iron water pump ‘trying to free it off’ - this ended up in a frantic eBay search and a drive to Peterborough to get an exact match. I wasn’t best pleased, and neither was the customer (understandably) until it was all sorted. 

 

And then there was the total arxxxole who had us take a knackered ash tree down at the back of his house over an equally knackered ivy covered asbestos roofed garage, who subsequently had a new garage roof out of me when he falsely claimed we had damaged it (we definitely hadn’t). He didn’t even pay for his tree removal (Scottish Power did), and they knew he was lying but I had to swallow the cost as we did a lot for Scottish Power at the time and they didn’t want an upset customer.... 

[openspaceman]

4 hours ago, doobin said:

When my staff and I did the non notifiable asbestos course, we were told that transporting  asbestos as a business was totally illegal. Homeowners might get away with it, but probably only as the council would rather they take the odd bit to the tip rather than bury it. No way would OP be allowed to drop off a transit of asbestos at the tip, and the best price I had for a small asbestos skip was £800 plus vat. If a smaller amount then you can get a collection via sealed tipper van, but still usually over £500 

 

You are right as it is hazardous waste and back in the day required a consignment note, which cost money, as well as the waste carrier's licence.

 

Which is why  the home owner should take charge of it.

 

Technically the same is true of a car battery, you may drive down to the motor factors and let them change the battery and keep the old one but if you take the new battery to your yard to fit you may not legally take it to the tip. A householder can transport it to a civic amenities site. In practice...