Two Rope Working Consultation

[Jake Andrews]

Hey guys, haven't posted here in a while but iv come back to grown up Arbtalk as opposed to the FB one!

 

At first i was feeling the same way about two rope working much like most of you however i am starting to come around to it.

Regarding all the same excuses as it will take longer, cost more money and the guys down the road won't do it is a waste of breath in my opinion. Its coming to the Arb industry and we need to be ready for it, end of. HSE will not give a monkeys about money or time if it is regarded as safer and that is their bottom line.

The accident reports regarding fall from heights in our industry could be from many people or contractors and i don't think looking at who it was and the severity of the accident counts. i know many LARGE outfits around my way who mainly employ fresh out of college arborists who are arguable most risk of having an injury. Just because they are AA approved or a bigger outfit, does not mean that they won't have accidents, just means they are more likely to report them.

 

I have read into the argument that work positioning (WP) involves feet against a structure. So climbing up Ddrt and change overs is WP whilst SRT to the TIP is rope access (which makes sense in my head). As soon as the climber is climbing around the tree and feet against the tree (even on SRT), this is WP. Redirecting off a limb and descending down onto a limb whilst suspended from the rope is rope access so back up is needed. As soon as they are non the limb, it is then work positioning. When ascending back to the redirect, we are back to rope access.

 

So here is my issue.

As you can see from my example above (if i am correct), we change from WP to rope access frequently without knowing it if your like me and choose to climb SRT. If i am to have a backup system then i want it for the full climb and not for intermittent parts. I am fine in the idea of using such systems provided there is an overall benefit.

 

I have been climbing all week on 2 systems and i have found it very rewarding and i can also see many benefits so far. I will be continuing to use these systems to try and beat the date when we are to use this fully as standard practice. I have used a number of different back up systems to suit different tree types which i believe to be the answer. I don't believe that there will be one system to suit all. We've said it many times before but there is many ways to climb a tree and we choose which one is best before we ascend. A back up system will be the same.

 

Also, the argument for having ropes tangled and such must be the same for the rope access industry right? they have stolen many of our techniques over the years, perhaps now is the time where we could learn something from them.

 

I like the way this discussion is going on here[emoji106]

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Jake Andrews

[Khriss]

Nice one  Jake, positive. Not the way i ( we) found it sadly. Possibly yr tree work is different? Larger crowns? K

[Jake Andrews]

Nice one  Jake, positive. Not the way i ( we) found it sadly. Possibly yr tree work is different? Larger crowns? K

Yes some were open but I also had it in some conifers and a cedar that needed deadwooding.

Back up system one:


This was my first go. I only needed to go up and down in this willow removal so was very over kill. Needed a Petzl ASAP if I’m honest but I don’t like the £170 price tag! I’ve been using a CT Roll’n’lock as a progress capture but it’s not to great on coming down.

[Khriss]

New England Hivi? My favourite rope. Sadly dont work in Unicender. K

[Jake Andrews]

New England Hivi? My favourite rope. Sadly dont work in Unicender. K

No orange rope is Marlow Vega with the blue/green rope Samson velocity. Both sub 12mm ropes.

[Marc]

On 13/10/2019 at 18:02, Jake Andrews said:

 

Yes some were open but I also had it in some conifers and a cedar that needed deadwooding.

Back up system one:


This was my first go. I only needed to go up and down in this willow removal so was very over kill. Needed a Petzl ASAP if I’m honest but I don’t like the £170 price tag! I’ve been using a CT Roll’n’lock as a progress capture but it’s not to great on coming down.

 

Can I ask what’s the point in confirming to WAH regs if straight away you are using equipment that is not fit for purpose?

equipment compatibility and conformity is equally important in the WAH hierarchy and PPE in work equipment regs.

 

 

i applaud your enthusiasm but we need to be opposing this as it is blatantly not workable to continue to enforce industrial regs upon our industry.

[Khriss]

57 minutes ago, Marc said:

Can I ask what’s the point in confirming to WAH regs if straight away you are using equipment that is not fit for purpose?

equipment compatibility and conformity is equally important in the WAH hierarchy and PPE in work equipment regs.

 

 

i applaud your enthusiasm but we need to be opposing this as it is blatantly not workable to continue to enforce industrial regs upon our industry.

But that IS the problem @Marc we aint getting enuff guidance! HSE will literally tie us in knots or it will be 'climbers decision' on the paperwork then devil take the hindmost on the accident report = no pay out or proscecutions. Dunno where this is going mate ? k

[Marc]

14 minutes ago, Khriss said:

But that IS the problem @Marc we aint getting enuff guidance! HSE will literally tie us in knots or it will be 'climbers decision' on the paperwork then devil take the hindmost on the accident report = no pay out or proscecutions. Dunno where this is going mate ? k

There is enough guidance in the PPE regs and LOLER on equipment selection.

and no offence to Jake who is a competent climber I would just like to climb with him and see how he can implement two rope working into everyday working scenarios and as to why two ropes is a safer method?

 

what ever way you look at it we are to blame for what is to come so we just need to improve how we operate and show the HSE that we are professional and that our methods of working are safe and appropriate.

[Ian C]

Great read in the latest ISA Arborist news, all about anchor selection and the skill used to select them, better training is the answer and less muppets in the industry, the whole training system needs to except that not every bum on a seat will make a good arborist and start failing those that won’t, this will have other affects as there will be less people flooding the market, higher skilled people will command better wages and climbing safety will rise! Just my opinion and probably not work much .

[Stephen Blair]

1 hour ago, Ian C said:

better training is the answer and less muppets in the industry, the whole training system needs to except that not every bum on a seat will make a good arborist and start failing those that won’t.

This!  I only became self employed so I didn’t have to work with idiots and the lazy.