Background to the HSE decision on two rope working

[Khriss]

3 hours ago, openspaceman said:

Why not they have them at the circus don't they, and aren't trapeze artists working? ?

..... Worked with enuff clowns as it is  ?  K

[Tree monkey 1682]

Have the hse approved or put up documentation about it yet?  If so put the updated hse guidance notes up... That's poss the easiest way around anything 

[Tree monkey 1682]

On 28/11/2020 at 15:43, TIMON said:

 

Hi Paul,

Hope you’re well. This has been my (main) gripe all along....
I remember hearing about the Utilities sector mandated ’2-rope working’ solution to their guys falling out of trees sometime before the HSE got hold of it... I wondered why they just chose to ‘mask the symptoms’ rather than hold an in-depth review of their working practices. (Maybe they did, but just introducing ‘2 ropes’ doesn’t address the root causes of accidents) Repeated falls from height in utility arb surely points to one or more of the following:

Poor anchor point selection.
Poor rope management
Poor work positioning
Insufficient management, planning and supervision.

Maybe I’m wrong in assuming there wasn’t any detailed investigation into why this was repeatedly happening in that sector... but to arrive at the conclusion that climbers were falling out of trees simply ‘because they weren’t using two ropes’ seems to suggest that the real issues weren’t being addressed.
It is unsurprising that the rest of the industry feel like they are being punished for someone else’s mistakes.

(I know the ICOP and TG1 do cover management and planning work safely)

It will be interesting to see how future accident reporting pans out in the next few years.
T

 

 

I could give you a few reasons as to why utility teams  generally end up falling out of trees, but I will probably end up getting slated for it. 

What I'm struggling is what the arb assoc has got to do with it or have they got more involved with practises and hse recently? 

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

10 hours ago, Tree monkey 1682 said:

 

What I'm struggling is what the arb assoc has got to do with it or have they got more involved with practises and hse recently? 

We always have been involved in industry practices, both directly and through our membership of AFAG (HSE sub-group.)

 

See 

Arboricultural Association - Tree work at height – Regulations and guidance

WWW.TREES.ORG.UK

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<p class= dgreen lead bold >Over the last couple of years there has been a significant shift in practical guidance on safe and...

for more insight. 

[Tree monkey 1682]

1 hour ago, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

We always have been involved in industry practices, both directly and through our membership of AFAG (HSE sub-group.)

 

See 

Arboricultural Association - Tree work at height – Regulations and guidance

WWW.TREES.ORG.UK

---

<p class= dgreen lead bold >Over the last couple of years there has been a significant shift in practical guidance on safe and...

for more insight. 

I just thought you were, best industry practises in the way of tree care, ie pruning,  fungus, etc. Thought the hse was the body that governed  what tree teams did or don't do in the tree. 

 It doesn't bother me... Due to using twin lines in a tree. 

However  what I would look at is if, this is legislation derived from powerline clearance teams,  then the's numerous reasons why they keep having stupid accidents. 

 

[john87]

Ok, i know NOTHING of this kind of thing really, but i will point out the obvious..

 

1, Risk assessment and management is a balancing act. You cannot enforce "safety" measures that migth sound good, but for whatever reason, actually increase overall risk..

 

2, The muppets that dreamt this up, have probably never been up a tree..

 

3, What happens in other sectors of the "access industry" is irrelevant, going up the side of a block of flats is a stroll in the park compared to a tree..

 

4, Best of all, if you are self employed, HS law was changed, so that if you are only putting yourself in danger, you are exempt from this sort of nonsense..

 

"In 2011, the Löfstedt Review recommended that those self-employed whose work activities pose no potential risk of harm to others should be exempt from health and safety law. This recommendation was accepted by Government.

So, from 1 October 2015, if you are self-employed and your work activity poses no potential risk to the health and safety of other workers or members of the public, then health and safety law will not apply to you."

 

Is YOUR rope holding up anyone else?? No??? then do as you like..

 

As you were....

 

john...

[Mick Dempsey]

7 minutes ago, john87 said:

Ok, i know NOTHING of this kind of thing really, but i will point out the obvious..

 

1, Risk assessment and management is a balancing act. You cannot enforce "safety" measures that migth sound good, but for whatever reason, actually increase overall risk..

 

2, The muppets that dreamt this up, have probably never been up a tree..

 

3, What happens in other sectors of the "access industry" is irrelevant, going up the side of a block of flats is a stroll in the park compared to a tree..

 

4, Best of all, if you are self employed, HS law was changed, so that if you are only putting yourself in danger, you are exempt from this sort of nonsense..

 

"In 2011, the Löfstedt Review recommended that those self-employed whose work activities pose no potential risk of harm to others should be exempt from health and safety law. This recommendation was accepted by Government.

So, from 1 October 2015, if you are self-employed and your work activity poses no potential risk to the health and safety of other workers or members of the public, then health and safety law will not apply to you."

 

Is YOUR rope holding up anyone else?? No??? then do as you like..

 

As you were....

 

john...

Interesting if true.

Any takers?

[john87]

10 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

Interesting if true.

Any takers?

I cannot get any links to work, but just google "self employed exempt from HSE law" and you will find all you want..

 

john..

Edited December 8, 2021 by john87

[john87]

Here you go..

Self-employed workers - HSE

WWW.HSE.GOV.UK

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From 1 October 2015, if you are self-employed and your work activity poses no potential risk to the health and safety of...

 

Hope this helps...

 

john..

[Mick Dempsey]

People who have more of a dog in the fight than I will surely have an opinion.

 

@AA Teccie (Paul)