Traditional timber frame

[donnk]

Are you cladding the external walls  or bricking it up ?

[gobbypunk]

Hi , not sure what he is doing for the walls , I know he is going to try and make bifold doors but that’s a long way off , and no I will not Mill him any bigger beams as when he had a mate with a woodmizer in he would not Mill a small butt for me .Thanks guys as I was just curious , it seems my thinking was about right .

[Johnsond]

9 hours ago, gobbypunk said:

Hi , not sure what he is doing for the walls , I know he is going to try and make bifold doors but that’s a long way off , and no I will not Mill him any bigger beams as when he had a mate with a woodmizer in he would not Mill a small butt for me .Thanks guys as I was just curious , it seems my thinking was about right .

The  research I've done and the info I've gathered would indicate he's way off the mark in relation to size he's trying to span and material he's using. The DF I'm milling is for a sunroom and the max it will have to span will only be 4.5m, I'm pretty sure I'll be using a bit more than bolted up 4x2s 

[difflock]

So many variables, and most tables will include relatively generous/stupidly generous  Factors of Safety.(and I think structural timbers are mostly sized to prevent deflection or undue "springiness")

Anyway, are we talking an overhead span (presumably otherwise midspan supports at ground level)

Being a garden room, presumably single story?

So what mid span loads will the overhead timbers be supporting, or can they be artistically fabricated as part of a truss, ergo much stiffer?

Fabricate  a trial beam or truss at ground level and test it for stiffness?

I cannot imagine sudden failure i.e. there will a LOT of deflection to give reasonable warning prior to failure.

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by difflock

[donnk]

20 hours ago, gobbypunk said:

Hi , not sure what he is doing for the walls , I know he is going to try and make bifold doors but that’s a long way off , and no I will not Mill him any bigger beams as when he had a mate with a woodmizer in he would not Mill a small butt for me .Thanks guys as I was just curious , it seems my thinking was about right .

unless you want a visibly 'timber' building for some reason I wouldnt bother with timber frame at all. 

 

Waaaaaay cheaper to build a normal brick and block house with none of the hassle. 

 

Inside you can beam away if you like.

 

The main advantage of timber frame is 'supposed' rapid construction. Yes the frame goes up and is levelled on packers fast BUT it then sits and waits to be bricked up and roofed. Unless you have all the trades ready to smash it out in 4 weeks tops then you are just throwing money away on a frame no one will see.

 

[ucoulddoit]

6 hours ago, donnk said:

unless you want a visibly 'timber' building for some reason I wouldnt bother with timber frame at all. 

 

Waaaaaay cheaper to build a normal brick and block house with none of the hassle. 

 

Inside you can beam away if you like.

 

The main advantage of timber frame is 'supposed' rapid construction. Yes the frame goes up and is levelled on packers fast BUT it then sits and waits to be bricked up and roofed. Unless you have all the trades ready to smash it out in 4 weeks tops then you are just throwing money away on a frame no one will see.

 

I agree that if you want a building with 'small' windows, relatively short span floors, modest sized rooms in an 'egg box type construction' etc. then normal brick and block or timber framed panels and timber floors is probably the way to go. But for an open plan floor layout with large areas of glazing, possibly replacing entire external solid walls, then a frame of some description is often necessary in order to provide overall stability to resist wind load. Could be steel, green oak, etc. etc.

 

I'm part way through building an extension which is fully glazed on two adjacent external walls, has a pitched tiled roof and glulam 'arch' frames which many folk have admired and likened to being inside a church as there are no cross timbers or ties at 'ceiling' level. The front wall is glass from side to side and floor to the pitched roof and if I was doing this to earn a living I've a feeling I'd have a pretty good order book going forwards given the number of people who have enquired about it! I'd say there are plenty of people happy to spend some extra money to create a design which isn't achievable with more basic forms of construction.

 

Andrew

[Johnsond]

5 hours ago, ucoulddoit said:

I agree that if you want a building with 'small' windows, relatively short span floors, modest sized rooms in an 'egg box type construction' etc. then normal brick and block or timber framed panels and timber floors is probably the way to go. But for an open plan floor layout with large areas of glazing, possibly replacing entire external solid walls, then a frame of some description is often necessary in order to provide overall stability to resist wind load. Could be steel, green oak, etc. etc.

 

I'm part way through building an extension which is fully glazed on two adjacent external walls, has a pitched tiled roof and glulam 'arch' frames which many folk have admired and likened to being inside a church as there are no cross timbers or ties at 'ceiling' level. The front wall is glass from side to side and floor to the pitched roof and if I was doing this to earn a living I've a feeling I'd have a pretty good order book going forwards given the number of people who have enquired about it! I'd say there are plenty of people happy to spend some extra money to create a design which isn't achievable with more basic forms of construction.

 

Andrew

Would it be possible to see a couple of images ??, 

[donnk]

6 hours ago, ucoulddoit said:

I agree that if you want a building with 'small' windows, relatively short span floors, modest sized rooms in an 'egg box type construction' etc. then normal brick and block or timber framed panels and timber floors is probably the way to go. But for an open plan floor layout with large areas of glazing, possibly replacing entire external solid walls, then a frame of some description is often necessary in order to provide overall stability to resist wind load. Could be steel, green oak, etc. etc.

 

I'm part way through building an extension which is fully glazed on two adjacent external walls, has a pitched tiled roof and glulam 'arch' frames which many folk have admired and likened to being inside a church as there are no cross timbers or ties at 'ceiling' level. The front wall is glass from side to side and floor to the pitched roof and if I was doing this to earn a living I've a feeling I'd have a pretty good order book going forwards given the number of people who have enquired about it! I'd say there are plenty of people happy to spend some extra money to create a design which isn't achievable with more basic forms of construction.

 

Andrew

not knocking 1 offs at all. they  are marmite builds for buyers and cost a lot more to do but can look great in the right setting. Worst ones are barn conversions with massive chunks of glass.. look shite as no proportion.

 

You dont have to have small windows, short spans or small rooms with a normal build either. Not sure where you get that idea.

[ucoulddoit]

13 hours ago, Johnsond said:

Would it be possible to see a couple of images ??, 

Not sure if glulam is relevant to the thread title but the following link goes to a news item on the glulam manufacturers website which has three photoes  of the frame they made for me to my design which I erected myself  http://www.bucklandtimber.co.uk/news/buckland-timber-siberian-larch-gothic-portal-frame/   No need for anyone to highlight the H&S issues during erection! The design won’t be to everyone’s taste and it is a very small project, just under 20 square metres floor area, but there are other much more impressive examples on the website of what can be done by including a frame. The news item for the private swimming pool for instance shows how you can achieve a large open plan area with almost 100% glazing on the external walls.

I included a simple frame on such a small project because it isn’t attached to the main building and with a heavy tiled roof, a large amount of glazing on the walls and other issues, it wouldn’t otherwise be stable in the hurricane force winds we get every winter. The front frame is set back about a metre and the roof cantilevers over this frame which means when sitting at the front, there is less obstruction to the view out of the front window which wraps around both sides. I’d like to have laminated the frames myself but just had too much on to be able do it when I needed them. Each frame is laminated from 51 layers of 9mm thick larch planks which enables a fairly tight radius of 2m at the haunch. Most of each frame will remain visible in the completed project.

When working up the design for this project I looked into the option of a green oak frame which I would have fabricated myself and I also obtained an estimate from a manufacturer for supply only which I would have erected. But the glulam worked out to be a fraction of the cost compared to a manufactured green oak frame and we really like it!

Andrew

[petercb]

2 hours ago, ucoulddoit said:

No need for anyone to highlight the H&S issues during erection!

You're dead right there is no need to highlight them they speak for themselves!

 

I'm just amazed the company would post that particular photo on their website as it might encourage others to work in an unsafe manner.

 

Nice frames though, finished yet?