House heating that isn't wood fueled?

[Big J]

I've always loved the idea of micro hydro, but finding enough flow and head is always going to be an issue. Given that power output doubles every time you double the head, it's much more important than flow rate.

 

That being said, a friend of ours has a river running through their land which I reckon does 750 litres a second (no specific data on that particular river, but I found the discharge rate for a little river I used to fish as a kid and I reckon our friend's river is a touch larger). He's already got an weir on it, so it wouldn't take much of a change to the river's course to install something like an archimedes screw. 750 litres/second at 1m is a potential output of 7.3kw.

[Ernesto]

4 hours ago, Big J said:

I've always loved the idea of micro hydro, but finding enough flow and head is always going to be an issue. Given that power output doubles every time you double the head, it's much more important than flow rate.

 

That being said, a friend of ours has a river running through their land which I reckon does 750 litres a second (no specific data on that particular river, but I found the discharge rate for a little river I used to fish as a kid and I reckon our friend's river is a touch larger). He's already got an weir on it, so it wouldn't take much of a change to the river's course to install something like an archimedes screw. 750 litres/second at 1m is a potential output of 7.3kw.

Hi J, probably worth a look at evans-engineering.co.uk . they're in Launceston, been doing water wheels/hydro since 1810.

Ernie

[Craig Johnson]

just a quick search to show what i'm talking about but, vortex water turbines require less water and head

 

http://www.ee.co.za/article/the-gravitational-vortex-water-turbine-puts-a-spin-on-small-hydro.html

 

because of their relative small scale can as efficient even at 5Kw

[openspaceman]

3 hours ago, Craig Johnson said:

just a quick search to show what i'm talking about but, vortex water turbines require less water and head

 

http://www.ee.co.za/article/the-gravitational-vortex-water-turbine-puts-a-spin-on-small-hydro.html

 

because of their relative small scale can as efficient even at 5Kw

Interesting, it seems very similar to a Kaplan turbine which I thought harness the kinetic energy of the flow plus the  energy from the smaller height potential.

Edited December 31, 2018 by openspaceman

[openspaceman]

4 hours ago, Ernesto said:

Hi J, probably worth a look at evans-engineering.co.uk . they're in Launceston, been doing water wheels/hydro since 1810.

Ernie

One thing that caught my attention was the FAQ which appears to say that  the water abstracted and returned was not longer charged for in water power schemes.

[Paul in the woods]

9 hours ago, Big J said:

750 litres/second at 1m is a potential output of 7.3kw.

I've been thinking a bit about this, i.e. the output required. Our last elec bill shows a daily 9.3 kWh usage, so I'd only need 0.5kW generation for my needs. Something capable of 1kW would be ideal, and just dumping the energy in a few storage heaters and a hot water tank to keep things simple.

 

@Ernesto thanks for the link, Evans aren't that far from me so I'll bear them in mind.

[benedmonds]

I have done 4 different aia' s for renewables first. Who are planning to install small scale hydro. I also quoted at a bunch of other sites.. They must be economically viable.. 

Edited December 31, 2018 by benedmonds

[teepeeat]

Big J, as you have already identified, reducing heating demand is the first step.

Not too sure why you think there is an issue with whole house ventilation system filters? Air-conditioning is a fact of daily life for most workers and a lot of city dwellers with big & small systems requiring filtering so filter materials are well understood & widely available.

Apart from filtering, what are the problems with passive house air quality?? Many people cant seem to get past the initial thought of living in a sealed box. Passive houses always include some sort of ventilation system to move the air around and distribute the heating more evenly. there is also nothing to stop you opening a window - particularly for the bulk of the year (in the UK) where temperatures dont preclude this.

 

Not sure what heating distribution you have used before, but UFH would give a significant improvement over radiators - studies have shown that people 'feel' the temp to be at least 2 deg C above the actual temp with UFH due partly to the more even spread of the heat.

 

I do heat and provide hot water exclusively with wood, but having reduced demand I find that I use on average 2 small builders buckets of wood a day (200m2 house with average 3 people) beginning Nov to early March which is not overly taxing physically or mentally to collect, process & move around and indeed with a more managerial job I find it to be a healthy activity. Using an efficient stove coupled to a thermal store means I burn hard & fast over a short period of time - normally in the evening. Getting up in the morning, the house is still plenty warm enough from the night before. None of this trying to keep a fire in all day.

If you are in the fortunate position of planning a new build there is a lot to be taken from advances in knowledge/understanding of how buildings function, improvements in tech and building materials to get you most of the way that wont cost a fortune (need to dodge all the bullshit salesmen jumping on the bandwagon)

I suspect your biggest problem is the 22-23 deg temperature requirement. Not too sure why it needs to be that high, but each to their own I guess. I would find that very uncomfortable even having been born & raised in Africa. There is however no simple way to provide that temperature that is not going to cost a lot in monetary terms let alone ecologically. What is this 22-23deg based on - previous boiler settings or a careful measurement of the actual average temperature in the house?????

[openspaceman]

58 minutes ago, teepeeat said:

Big J, as you have already identified, reducing heating demand is the first step.

Not too sure why you think there is an issue with whole house ventilation system filters? Air-conditioning is a fact of daily life for most workers and a lot of city dwellers with big & small systems requiring filtering so filter materials are well understood & widely available.

Apart from filtering, what are the problems with passive house air quality?? Many people cant seem to get past the initial thought of living in a sealed box. Passive houses always include some sort of ventilation system to move the air around and distribute the heating more evenly. there is also nothing to stop you opening a window - particularly for the bulk of the year (in the UK) where temperatures dont preclude this.

 

Not sure what heating distribution you have used before, but UFH would give a significant improvement over radiators - studies have shown that people 'feel' the temp to be at least 2 deg C above the actual temp with UFH due partly to the more even spread of the heat.

 

I do heat and provide hot water exclusively with wood, but having reduced demand I find that I use on average 2 small builders buckets of wood a day (200m2 house with average 3 people) beginning Nov to early March which is not overly taxing physically or mentally to collect, process & move around and indeed with a more managerial job I find it to be a healthy activity. Using an efficient stove coupled to a thermal store means I burn hard & fast over a short period of time - normally in the evening. Getting up in the morning, the house is still plenty warm enough from the night before. None of this trying to keep a fire in all day.

If you are in the fortunate position of planning a new build there is a lot to be taken from advances in knowledge/understanding of how buildings function, improvements in tech and building materials to get you most of the way that wont cost a fortune (need to dodge all the bullshit salesmen jumping on the bandwagon)

I suspect your biggest problem is the 22-23 deg temperature requirement. Not too sure why it needs to be that high, but each to their own I guess. I would find that very uncomfortable even having been born & raised in Africa. There is however no simple way to provide that temperature that is not going to cost a lot in monetary terms let alone ecologically. What is this 22-23deg based on - previous boiler settings or a careful measurement of the actual average temperature in the house?????

My thoughts too, although I live in an 1862 build solid wall brick cottage so less scope for insulation

[Big J]

1 hour ago, teepeeat said:

Big J, as you have already identified, reducing heating demand is the first step.

Not too sure why you think there is an issue with whole house ventilation system filters? Air-conditioning is a fact of daily life for most workers and a lot of city dwellers with big & small systems requiring filtering so filter materials are well understood & widely available.

Apart from filtering, what are the problems with passive house air quality?? Many people cant seem to get past the initial thought of living in a sealed box. Passive houses always include some sort of ventilation system to move the air around and distribute the heating more evenly. there is also nothing to stop you opening a window - particularly for the bulk of the year (in the UK) where temperatures dont preclude this.

 

Not sure what heating distribution you have used before, but UFH would give a significant improvement over radiators - studies have shown that people 'feel' the temp to be at least 2 deg C above the actual temp with UFH due partly to the more even spread of the heat.

 

I do heat and provide hot water exclusively with wood, but having reduced demand I find that I use on average 2 small builders buckets of wood a day (200m2 house with average 3 people) beginning Nov to early March which is not overly taxing physically or mentally to collect, process & move around and indeed with a more managerial job I find it to be a healthy activity. Using an efficient stove coupled to a thermal store means I burn hard & fast over a short period of time - normally in the evening. Getting up in the morning, the house is still plenty warm enough from the night before. None of this trying to keep a fire in all day.

If you are in the fortunate position of planning a new build there is a lot to be taken from advances in knowledge/understanding of how buildings function, improvements in tech and building materials to get you most of the way that wont cost a fortune (need to dodge all the bullshit salesmen jumping on the bandwagon)

I suspect your biggest problem is the 22-23 deg temperature requirement. Not too sure why it needs to be that high, but each to their own I guess. I would find that very uncomfortable even having been born & raised in Africa. There is however no simple way to provide that temperature that is not going to cost a lot in monetary terms let alone ecologically. What is this 22-23deg based on - previous boiler settings or a careful measurement of the actual average temperature in the house?????

I just like a warm house. I spend my whole working life outside in all weathers, and my preference is to shed my outer layers as soon as I step through the door and grab some shorts and a t-shirt for indoors. 

 

To get a house to passive standard from an economic point of view doesn't make sense (or at least, not quite). It's cheaper in the long run to build a very well insulated house with minimal heat imput than go that extra mile for passive standard. The issue with MVHR is that it's commonly installed, especially in Europe but there is very little market for the filters that need to be replaced at regular intervals. As such, people are living in enviroments where all the air is filtered through filthy filters, which is bad for indoor air quality.

 

Very interesting post though, and thanks for taking the time.