Facebook video. Graphic accident

[Jcarbor]

so a method statement and risk assessment will stop things happening like the video at begining of this thread ? well i didnt know that, and then when its happened you draw up a new plan ? bit late shutting the stable door when the horse has gone, No paper work on this earth will stop accidents happening, shit happens and it always will do WE are all human and not one of us is perfect,

The method was totally wrong for that tree, if the person who planned that work stated it should be down that way then he should be picking up his p45. Proper planning and that situation would never have occurred.

[tree-fancier123]

2 hours ago, Jcarbor said:

The method was totally wrong for that tree, if the person who planned that work stated it should be down that way then he should be picking up his p45. Proper planning and that situation would never have occurred.

hey JC - I have a question for you, as you seem up to speed with the more serious safety considerations - if it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt that a 5 ton ratchet strap will stop any barber chair ( the trunk may split, but will be contained), then would it be then best practise to place an endless strap above the cut rather than climb?  The only negative I can see applying this in the case of this accident is the situation Skyhuck described of the butt end coming back, as the climber wasn't high enough. Can you think of any other reason why climbing higher would be safer than the ratchet strap and a lower cut? (sticking to this particular tree for the moment)

[Mick Dempsey]

17 minutes ago, tree-fancier123 said:

hey JC - I have a question for you, as you seem up to speed with the more serious safety considerations - if it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt that a 5 ton ratchet strap will stop any barber chair ( the trunk may split, but will be contained), then would it be then best practise to place an endless strap above the cut rather than climb?  The only negative I can see applying this in the case of this accident is the situation Skyhuck described of the butt end coming back, as the climber wasn't high enough. Can you think of any other reason why climbing higher would be safer than the ratchet strap and a lower cut? (sticking to this particular tree for the moment)

Yes, it was a hell of a story (Skyhuck’s) very nasty indeed.

 

It illustrates again the difference in species.

 

A poplar will probably shatter a crown on impact whereas a beech crown will be more robust and do the old spring back thing.

 

 

 

 

[Jcarbor]

hey JC - I have a question for you, as you seem up to speed with the more serious safety considerations - if it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt that a 5 ton ratchet strap will stop any barber chair ( the trunk may split, but will be contained), then would it be then best practise to place an endless strap above the cut rather than climb?  The only negative I can see applying this in the case of this accident is the situation Skyhuck described of the butt end coming back, as the climber wasn't high enough. Can you think of any other reason why climbing higher would be safer than the ratchet strap and a lower cut? (sticking to this particular tree for the moment)

Hi tree-fancier, ratchet strap are a good tool to have in the box, that said we ( me and our team of lads) all agree that that tree was a climb higher job/MEWP if access would allow, even before reading skyhucks awful dit about the two brothers we had discussed the real possibility of that stem coming back up to contact with the lad as it contacted the bank. I know there are a few lads on this thread who think that no amount of RAs or MS would have stopped this horrific accident but we believe it would have seriously reduced the risk. I believe that I am reasonably qualified to comment on issues of safety and planning having spent 20 years of my working life as a NHS Paramedic and studied risk management. Proper planning does work. The only good point that has come out of this horrific accident (that I for one did not like watching )is that it may assist experienced arborist and newbies to the trade to realise how a moment of misjudgment can lead to a life changing event. I hope the lad makes a full recovery. Stay safe.

[Khriss]

On the subject of RA-MS, which I know some of you shun, it is never going to cover every eventuality ! This we know . BUT , it does show on paper ( or yr tablet ) you an yr crew put some thought into the job be fr bashing on. An will be the first thing the HSE look at in an instance such as this. Look at it as a way of saving yr pension / insurance / company credibility should the unexpected bite yr. K

 

( make NO mistake. Banks, insurance loss adjusters, barristers, HSE will pick apart every tiny little detail of yr day, to prove yr in the wrong-don't give them more ammunition )

Edited December 21, 2018 by Khriss
(More detail )

[Jcarbor]

On the subject of RA-MS, which I know some of you shun, it is never going to cover every eventuality ! This we know . BUT , it does show on paper ( or yr tablet ) you an yr crew put some thought into the job be fr bashing on. An will be the first thing the HSE look at in an instance such as this. Look at it as a way of saving yr pension / insurance / company credibility should the unexpected bite yr. K
 
( make NO mistake. Banks, insurance loss adjusters, barristers, HSE will pick apart every tiny little detail of yr day, to prove yr in the wrong-don't give them more ammunition )

Well put Kriss especially the last in brackets bit, cutting corners can be a very expensive not only financially but it could end up with a spell inside, issues that may seem trivial for example the lack of proper chapter 8 TM on jobs ( that we often see on our travels around) can end up as a criminal offence if owt goes tits up.

[Khriss]

Its now ancient legislation now JC, 1974 it came in , no one took any notice in Arb until the insurance and banking sector started baulking at the bigger n bigger sums of cash paid out on claims ( oooo me back ! ) so started refering back to employers and industry to sort out their acts . The end result is that poor bloke will not succeed with a claim , cos , guess wot ..... all captured on camera . The volume of spurious claims over the years means insurance companies go to rediculous lengths to wriggle out of pay out . K

[Khriss]

21 minutes ago, Jcarbor said:

Well put Kriss especially the last in brackets bit, cutting corners can be a very expensive not only financially but it could end up with a spell inside, issues that may seem trivial for example the lack of proper chapter 8 TM on jobs ( that we often see on our travels around) can end up as a criminal offence if owt goes tits up.

The Chapter 8 stuff particularly, on our course ( some old as the hills council gritter bloke ) was made clear ' even if that car crunch was some old bat blind drunk, if yr cones are not spaced properly , the signage at right distances and sizing - yr gonna get nailed for it- cos it isn't Highways traffic management - its an obstruction in the road you put there  ' K

[peds]

Really interesting exchange over the last few pages dudes, exactly the kind of thing I joined up to read. Lots to think about.

 

Cheers.

[Craig Johnson]

 'Gerald Berenek himself advises it in The Fundamentals'. it's a good book but in forty years haven't most things  moved on and it not that relevant to the work we do in the UK