Abandoning our ex forces

[David Cropper]

10 minutes ago, WesD said:

@Vespasian you don’t know how someone will react to active duty before they have been on active duty, it’s a suck it and see situation as mental health can’t be visually measured. Basic training and phase 2 training whittles out the people who aren’t capable but it doesn’t mean the capable can’t go awry, we are all only human after all. 

 

PTSD is a funny one, people who claim to have it probably don’t those who genuinely have it are diagnosed and a lot of those are ex/servicemen/women due to what they have been through and seen. 

 

The forces used to have a great program where if you where injured badly you’d have a job for life in admin however Blair put paid to that by making all forces admin online on a computer program which saved wages on admin staff which a lot where as I said previously badly injured and could no longer serve on the front line. 

 

Its a great thread this where the answers are difficult to come by, the solutions vary as the ptsd problem the solution is not money per se, it’s a service that’s needed to counsel our guys after and offer guidance however the homeless issue well that needs money per se to offer shelter and food etc. 

 

Good response Wes, a lot more reasonable than I can make at the moment.

[Joe Newton]

Lads, you're playing into his hands. Vesp is a troll looking for a reaction. This is the closest he's been to combat; throwing ignorant comments from behind a pseudonym.

 

Let's not validate his post with reactions. 

[Mark Wileman]

I can only talk from personal experience, and I'm lucky enough to not suffer mentally from anything that happened to me during service.

 

I think the support the Armed forces give its leavers is very good, and not like anything you'd find in any other type of employment. I'm bombarded with emails from the resettlement officers, service charities etc... asking me to fill out surveys to see how I'm getting on, and I presume certain red flag answers will trigger further help if required.

 

I've not only fully qualified myself in tree work through my resettlement phase but I've also just enrolled on a BSc Arboriculture which is being heavily subsidised, despite no longer being in the military.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the help is there, but only available if you let it help! I fully understand, and have many friends in positions where trying to receive that help is difficult due to their mental state, just as it is for someone with severe anxiety or post natal depression. What some rare people who've never served miss out on when ranting online about how we are all self-entitled pricks who made the choice to join up etc... is the whole lifestyle of the military, for x amount of years, no matter what job you did; you are at the whim of the command structure and can be sent all over the world at short notice, this puts a huge strain on any kind of personal/family life and forces you to immerse yourself more into the military and without sound like a cliche it literally becomes you family - when you leave that no longer exists. I like to think I stayed fairly resilient to the indoctrination during my time, but I still feel some effects of no longer being part of such a gang. Compare it your family and friends all leaving to live in another country and your left behind in a bedsit.

 

So the term PTSD is often thrown about, but a more accurate term would be "various mental health issues arising from Service". It's a sad state of affairs that we are in at the moment, but it really is up to individual to -want- to get themselves back on their feet.

 

I don't think I actually came to any point in this essay of a message, but I think I need to use more commas!

 

Out!

Edited October 16, 2018 by Mark Wileman

[stihlmadasever]

37 minutes ago, WesD said:

those who genuinely have it are diagnosed and a lot of those are ex/servicemen/women due to what they have been through and seen. 

Nail on the head there wes,although id like to add to that if i may.

It seems those who need help most are the ones who are most reluctant to seek help.It used to be have a drink, kick yourself up the arse carry on.

My mate paul was on the street,alcoholic and alone.

Christ i get teary just thinkin about that.

I just dont get how such a normal switched on bloke can get to the bottom of the pile and couldnt get help.

From anyone

Maybe he didnt try hard enough?

I dont know....

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by stihlmadasever

[WesD]

4 minutes ago, stihlmadasever said:

Nail on the head there wes,although id like to add to that if i may.

It seems those who need help most are the ones who are most reluctant to seek help.It used to be have a drink, kick yourself up the arse carry on.

My mate paul was on the street,alcoholic and alone.

Christ i get teary just thinkin about that.

I just dont get how such a normal switched on bloke can get to the bottom of the pile and couldnt get help.

From anyone

 

Because he was trained to adapt and overcome we are a strange bunch and no Vesp it’s not pride it’s engrained that we can get out of any situation with only what we have to hand unfortunately @stihlmadasever Mate we ain’t used not programmed to ask for help, heck probably don’t know when we need it. 

[Vespasian]

2 hours ago, David Cropper said:

Ignorant twat! You know sod all though think you're some sort of intellectual.  I suspect my education was a bit better than yours, I may be wrong, but doubt it. I was a grammar school boy, couldn't wait to join the Army, as soon as I reached 17, joined my Regiment in Ireland at 17 and a half. Stop giving out your stupid opinions of which you have no knowledge to comment on. I realise that you have got the reaction you crave, a bit of attention, I should know better at my age than biting. You really are beneath contempt. 

You're right, I went to a secondary school.. didn't do shit worth bragging about.. If I took any exams I would of been as surprised as my teachers if I happened to have passed them..  so yea, definitely better educated than I am.. or at least you was..   

 

by the way, if it was a run in, or attention I was seeking don't you think I'd be on the Europe thread winding half of those up..  you see, I think there are problems with people in the army.. more so the army than any other service..   its just that I believe one solution is to do what they did after the first and second world wars..  which was...........

 

and, attempt to explain that the problem of PTSD might not be as clear cut as was first suggested.. 

 

Just to be clear, those who have suffered genuine psychological problems related to trauma in front line action I think should get all the help they need..   which is something that goes without saying..

Edited October 16, 2018 by Vespasian

[WesD]

13 minutes ago, Vespasian said:

its just that I believe one solution is to do what they did after the first and second world wars..  which was...........

Drink and smoke themselves to an earlier grave! Back then therapy and mental health was even less known about so problems where less broadcast/known about BUT they still definitely existed with the same squaddie I’m ok mentality. Also social media and the internet has helped massively in identifying/learning about problems due to anonymity! 

 

Its at at this point @VespasianI play the if you haven’t experienced the forces you wouldn’t understand card, quite simply because you don’t understand and no end of watching YouTube will help you to. 

 

[Vespasian]

6 minutes ago, WesD said:

Drink and smoke themselves to an earlier grave! Back then therapy and mental health was even less known about so problems where less broadcast/known about BUT they still definitely existed with the same squaddie I’m ok mentality. Also social media and the internet has helped massively in identifying/learning about problems due to anonymity! 

 

Its at at this point @VespasianI play the if you haven’t experienced the forces you wouldn’t understand card, quite simply because you don’t understand and no end of watching YouTube will help you to. 

 

Its commonly thought that psychological trauma might be treated by helping the patient revisit the root of their trauma..   not sure if its Fraud or Jung.   there are others who suggest the best approach is to bury the events that brought on their condition..  not sure what research has been done but one might have better success than the other..

 

if the success rate is better by repressing those traumatic experience and moving on, then perhaps thats where the kick up the arse comes into play..

 

I don't need to be a soldier to understand treatments and stats..  or to know what I'm talking about..

[WesD]

14 minutes ago, Vespasian said:

I don't need to be a soldier to understand treatments and stats..  or to know what I'm talking about..

Treatments and stats are swayed when it comes to mental health though! If you break your arm a Dr/surgeon can fix it, if you have a mental health issue and the Dr. Doesn’t fix you then you where fucked anyway! It’s immeasurable and targets can’t be hit hence the shortage and ignorance in funding. 

 

You really dont don’t know what your talking about on this one! To prove it I challenge you to create a solution PTSD using the kick up the arse method. 

 

Bearing in mind the guys from the era you mentioned where whiskey addicts sooooo didn’t kick themselves up the arse but drank themselves into a stupor. 

[Stumpy Grinder]

4 hours ago, Vespasian said:

See this is what I call a reasonable reply, not a rant that doesn't address any issues I raised..

 

The real problem isn't PTSD  but the the army not filtering out those individuals who they must know ain't ever gonna be suitable to be sent out on active duty...   would be better all round if they held those men back or didn't let em in in the first place...

 

wouldn't be hard to thin the applicants down, what was your last job, how long did you do it for..  how many jobs have you had..  whats your level of education...   why do you want to join the army.

 

Does the army life excite you or is it something to do until you work out what you want to do in life..

 

Might not have as many volunteers, but it would raise the quality of the common soldiery..

 

Obviously in times of war the bar might be lowered..  

This post clearly shows that you have no idea what you are talking about! We are all wired up differently, and you cannot determine how an individual will react in a particular situation until they actually encounter it! The Army is full of supposedly hard blokes that come mainly from broken families and have bags of confidence in everyday life.....

I remember an occasion in the first gulf war where I had to put a huge black American soldiers face back on which had been severed just in front of one ear and pushed completely across to his other ear. Once back on, I had to poke my finger into the various holes to align them so he could breath and see. I then had to treat his broken femur and other injuries. I expected help from my mates, but most of them couldn't help as they were being physically sick at the sight. The only person that actually helped was my OC, Maj Pat Lawless who was an awesome bloke that went on to become a Brigadier, but then resigned over Gays being allowed in the Army!

I actually enjoyed being able to help someone that I hope survived that day and have no emotional scars, just a positive memory. However, some of those that were sick may still bear the emotional scars to this day. We are all different!

Vespasian, you would do well not have such strong opinions on a very emotive subject of which you clearly have no understanding.

SG