So what's going to happen to the firewood market?

[LeeGray]

1 hour ago, Alycidon said:

Women want things wrapped that wont get their hands dirty when they pick them up.  Compare the prices of loose and pre packed carrots in a supermarket.

 

A

Very true, we’ve got a small veg box scheme and after many comments about 10 years ago had to start lining the boxes with newspaper to stop the odd bit of soil from a potato or carrot coming into contact with the housewives worktop. We sell everything loose, or in a paper bag if absolutely needed. We are very small. The big box schemes all use plastic wrapping.

[Gary Prentice]

1 hour ago, Alycidon said:

Having complained about the percentage of Ash logs showing signs of decay in my last container from Lithuania my supplier has advised me that good clean Ash cord is now pretty well impossible to source over there,

 

A

I suspect that Chalarah will have a similar effect over here. Ash isn't very durable once it dies and if DED was anytime to go by owners will leave them stood as long as possible before spending money. A nightmare for the contractor working on trees tha will begin to fall apart and resulting in a fair quantity of low quality timber and firewood.

 

We're only beginning to see it his summer in large trees, it will be interesting to see how planning deal with early applications to remove infected TPO trees; either consenting early after the initial symptoms appear or refusing until it's totally obvious that they are not going to be among the very small percentage of tolerant trees. Interesting times.

[Woodworks]

6 minutes ago, Gary Prentice said:

But do they really? Or is it a case of what the seller is telling the purchaser that they want? Who is leading who, I wonder.

It's not our experience. I would say 2/3rds of our orders are made by women and we supply good logs but we are not talking perfect and plenty of processor crumbs in the loads. I tend to apologise about the bits and am usually met with something like " oh I love all those bits and keep them for lighting" 

[Gary Prentice]

6 minutes ago, LeeGray said:

Very true, we’ve got a small veg box scheme and after many comments about 10 years ago had to start lining the boxes with newspaper to stop the odd bit of soil from a potato or carrot coming into contact with the housewives worktop. We sell everything loose, or in a paper bag if absolutely needed. We are very small. The big box schemes all use plastic wrapping.

Like the paper bags. ( why do supermarkets supply paper bags for mushrooms and plastic for all other lossed veg?)

 

I wonder if, given the current views on plastics generally, that the buyers viewpoint is the same? 

[Will Heal]

Women want things wrapped that wont get their hands dirty when they pick them up.  Compare the prices of loose and pre packed carrots in a supermarket.
 
A

That’s a very sexist generalisation!!

My girlfriend goes out of her way to buy veg without packaging. If more people were like her then there would be less plastic wrap around
Most people are lazy and just pick up what is quickest and easiest, supermarkets cater for this but supermarkets could just have all their fruit and veg loose for you to put in a paper bag then people would have to not be so lazy. If supermarkets did actually care about the environment then they would do more, but they are only concerned with profits.
The only answer is for people to stop shopping in Tesco and the like, but they won’t will they? Cos people are lazy and follow others like sheep.

[LeeGray]

The most amusing or annoying bit depending on current mood is when you say leave any packaging out on the next delivery day and we’ll reuse it meaning the veg box, egg box we delivered etc and instead you get a load of plastic trays from the supermarket beans from Kenya, strawberries from Spain and potatoes from fucking Egypt! Only a few days they were telling you “oh yeah, we really want to cut down packaging/food miles/emissions/waste”

ultimately wether its food, wood or anything else the majority of the public what the cheapest and most convenient option to them, right then and don’t give a shit about the implications.

28 minutes ago, Gary Prentice said:

Like the paper bags. ( why do supermarkets supply paper bags for mushrooms and plastic for all other lossed veg?)

 

I wonder if, given the current views on plastics generally, that the buyers viewpoint is the same? 

 

Edited September 9, 2018 by LeeGray
Spelling

[LeeGray]

2 minutes ago, Will Heal said:

That’s a very sexist generalisation!!

My girlfriend goes out of her way to buy veg without packaging. If more people were like her then there would be less plastic wrap around
Most people are lazy and just pick up what is quickest and easiest, supermarkets cater for this but supermarkets could just have all their fruit and veg loose for you to put in a paper bag then people would have to not be so lazy. If supermarkets did actually care about the environment then they would do more, but they are only concerned with profits.
The only answer is for people to stop shopping in Tesco and the like, but they won’t will they? Cos people are lazy and follow others like sheep.

Right on brother! ?

[openspaceman]

1 hour ago, LeeGray said:

plastic trays from the supermarket beans from Kenya, strawberries from Spain and potatoes from fucking Egypt! Only a few days they were telling you “oh yeah, we really want to cut down packaging/food miles/emissions/waste” 

ultimately wether its food, wood or anything else the majority of the public what the cheapest and most convenient option to them, right then and don’t give a shit about the implications.

Air freight  is yet another worry, it is relatively cheap because we can cannot get a global agreement on it's relatively high cost to the environment so  it's fuel remains untaxed. Hence often making it cheaper than local sources. I imagine this has caused a lot of the decline in growing things under glass in UK.

[Conor Wright]

18 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

Air freight  is yet another worry, it is relatively cheap because we can cannot get a global agreement on it's relatively high cost to the environment so  it's fuel remains untaxed. Hence often making it cheaper than local sources. I imagine this has caused a lot of the decline in growing things under glass in UK.

Growing under any form of protection has its environmental impact, but one polytunnel cover will last up to a decade, a glasshouse indefinitely once of proper construction and well maintained.. At a pure guess, the impact of one flight of mange tout from Zimbabwe to europe is doing more damage, not just to the global environment but also to the local ones, both where it takes off and lands, than the whole life cycle of a tunnel. How little are the subsistence farmers (many whom are mere tennants on massive commercial enterprises) getting for their work if its 79cent for 150g of their product 3000km away from home, also, how is the local grower who has to pay staff, taxes etc. and keep up to stringent standards of h and s bureaucracy, none of which are adhered to or can be adhered to by aforementioned overseas growers supposed to compete?

If we spent less time over here farming subsidies and destroying arable land with over stocking dairy and beef cattle maybe we could utilise the same land to successfully grow a complete range of vegetables and fruits while still maintaining a sufficient number of animals to keep some high quality exports (not exporting live animals) and dairy products to neighbouring countries.. Who really and genuinely thinks that Ireland exporting dairy products to China is actually the basis of a succesful business model? Really? 

Reduce animal numbers, thereby

Increasing diversification of produce.

Apply real world pricing to air freighted fresh goods.

Increase both the quality of farm incomes and work practises through higher value produce

Increase the numbers of people willing to work the land, because now it makes sense.

Reduce monocultures, plant more trees, save seeds, create bee habitats, run mixed livestock enterprises in conjunction with environmentally sound land husbandry techniques. minimise harmful chemical inputs, maximise production on small acreages, involve people, utilise social media etc to build proper awareness of what we are actually eating and the processes involved.

Maybe then we could go about achieving some level of actual economic security

[Conor Wright]

On 01/09/2018 at 21:20, Woodworks said:

With the cost of wood going through the roof due to increasing demand and likely rules on the moisture content of logs coming in what is likely to happen to the market?

 

Wondering if it best to make this our last year and get out quick before we simply cant buy wood due to being a small player. 

Derailed things a bit there.. but back to the topic in hand.. maybe it may be worth weathering the storm.. fossil fuel prices have always been volatile and there is always a niche for the smaller player.. just as long as we all keep planting trees.. thats the biggest risk factor for long term fuelwood suppliers, big and small.