Nptc chainsaw refresher training query

[stihlmadasever]

16 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

Squaddies have been provided with them for quite a while now, I wonder how real life training it is.

Really???

I was in the forces myself many years ago,digging holes in the woods training for section attacks was great, as was shitting in those holes and leaving em for the next section ?

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

9 hours ago, stihlmadasever said:

Agreed.

Ive seen guys coming back from passing courses and wondered just what Nptc deem as "competant" ???

They've introduced an alternative phrase now to try to reinforce the message that you've just passed your driving test, in effect. It's "License to Practice", no mention of the word 'competent' (except in PUWER, Reg. 9.)

 

Interestingly HSE have a very pragmatic approach with chainsaw etc. competence essentially saying that regardless of what 'tickets' an operator my have its the employers responsibility to ensure they are (truly) competent, and capable, of undertaking whatever work is assigned. However, in the event of an accident / incident resulting in a prosecution if there aren't any tickets in place they'll certainly "throw that in the mix."

 

Regarding 'Welfare' provision, my discussions with HSE have said 5 days or more you should have a mobile welfare unit available, or a suitable facility elsewhere etc., upto 5 days..."back to nature" (or front maybe )

 

Cheers all,

Paul

 

  

[JAG63]

2 hours ago, stihlmadasever said:

Really???

I was in the forces myself many years ago,digging holes in the woods training for section attacks was great, as was shitting in those holes and leaving em for the next section ?

Nothing to do with welfare, all to do with ground contamination. Easy to find OPFOR though, look for the big blue markers.

[spuddog0507]

7 hours ago, The avantgardener said:

What a load of horseshit, HSE making compulsory requirements for hot and cold water and toilets, no one in the history of Forestry has ever stated that a toilet is required on any job lasting more than three days and what has this got to do with refresher training?

NO its not horseshit, its coming and we will have to follow suit, and if you read the post i quoted ? yes its got nothing to do with refresher courses but you might find its got a lot to do with how things have and are changing all the time, when some of us started there was no such thing as chainsaw tickets and very little PPE the younger generations have PPE , HSE drummed in to them but in these days common sense is becoming more and more scarce,

[drinksloe]

With the welfare stuff does there not need to be  a minimum number of people on the job/site anyway before it all kicks in??

Most harvest sites unless massive/rush on will only really be 2 men + possibly cutters coming and going as needed

 

Also in my area a lot of the machine boys live in caravans up on/near site so that might count as the welfare aspect covered.

If they use it or not is a diffeent thing

 

That could be the next must have forest item grab tank/tool cupboard with added sh*t box welded on the side

I'm sure clarks are working on the design now

[Stuart Phillips]

Had an interesting chat to the HSE about refresher training.  The whole 3 year/5 year thing as left everyone looking at a compliance based approach to refreshers. That is, "as long as I within my 5 years, it doesn't matter how bad I am".  The push would be to move to a planned, risk based approach so, "looking a doing a lot of bigger trees, so I'll refresh felling over 380mm this year".  That could be just the felling unit, not maintenance and cross cutting as well. This could be followed, in a year or three by windblow or whatever.  Or, if someone is away from work for a few weeks, a refresher course to get them back up to speed. 

 

The essential elements here being that there is some form of refresher training happening, and it is planned in.  And the training is against an identified need, through the risk assessment, rather than on lets refresh it all every 5 years basis (or, worst still, a "lets upskill to do windblown trees, even though I don't need the ticket, as it will 'refresh' the cross cutting skills I do need to refresh" approach).

[maria warwick]

20 hours ago, spuddog0507 said:

 but in these days common sense is becoming more and more scarce,

oh so true .....

[The avantgardener]

On 19/08/2018 at 22:39, spuddog0507 said:

NO its not horseshit, its coming and we will have to follow suit, and if you read the post i quoted ? yes its got nothing to do with refresher courses but you might find its got a lot to do with how things have and iare changing all the time, when some of us started there was no such thing as chainsaw tickets and very little PPE the younger generations have PPE , HSE drummed in to them but in these days common sense is becoming more and more scarce,

I still think this is Horseshit and just because some guy on a HS day told you it was on the cards doesn’t mean you are able to predict the future and state this is fact, your entitled to believe what you want but show me some written info from HSE, for one, I don’t think there are enough portaloos in the country to supply every working forestry site, and who is going to police this?

I already have water in my truck, the truck is clean and I eat my lunch in it, I generally shit before work and take a piss as need be, I don’t require hot and cold running water and a flushable loo and won’t be walking off any cutting site in the future because of the lack of it.

I am also old enough to remember cutting with no tickets and minimal PPE, some things have changed for the better, things change, fact, and all change is not progression, but me and one cutter doing a four day job having to supply ourselves a welfare station isn’t going to happen and no one is going to stop the job, but as you put it ‘it is coming and we will have to follow suit’ over the top you go then son, I won’t be following you.

Edited August 21, 2018 by The avantgardener
Typo

[drinksloe]

I hope u are correct above avant, but i sadly doubt it.

 

No doubt it will come at some stage dunno when thou.

As for enforcement it just takes the FC to decide it is a good thing and demand it in the method statement and before u know it all the forestry companies will be following suit as usual.

With the FC they just love shuffling paper and inventing stupid rules and  i'm sure some of the foresters would enforce it, with ur private companies no doubt many would turn a blind eye.

I'm sure u could get round it by simply dragging a heap of crap caravan on site, or say u'll use 1 of the operators caravans, but in reality no one is ever going to use it no matter wot u provide

 

I'm sure in construction? there is a minimum number of folk on site before it kicks in?

I thought it was 4, so less than 4 ur fine.

Wot happens on the railways now with de veg crews, we often worked a 4 man crew miles away from sites and railways are always keen on rules like this

[The avantgardener]

Yeah, I quite often leave a hard track and take a 10 minute drive to the cutting site along rides where a portaloo couldn’t be delivered or serviced, if the loo is a 10 minute drive away no one would use it so what’s the point.

I suspect this idea will develop into a ‘recommended’ action if the site location/access was suitable and the length of job and gang was large, which doesn’t apply to the bulk of smaller operators, who would enforce this anyway if not on an F.C. site?

If I have a 6 acre block of Chestnut to coppice for a private woodland owner and I decide to drop in and out on it over a couple of months with one or two cutters, who is going to make me get a welfare unit and who’s going to stop me cutting if I haven’t, or is the ‘portaloo clause’ going to be inspected on every felling license application?