Drying Firewood when RHI payments stop.

[HertsWood]

I’m not sure I would want the downstream heat from my kiln heating a “normal” building. Once it’s passed over the logs to dry them it has become laden with moisture so it needs to be vented in my opinion. 
 
Taking heat off the boiler to the building as a separate draw is a different issue. 
 
 

That’s basically what we’re looking at doing. Using a similar design to one currently in use by Four Seasons Fuels. In theory, using the heat that goes up the chimney...

[HertsWood]

Nick at Four Seasons has a workable design, using a container approx 20ft, for under £10k installed & commissioned.

[Woodwanter]

answers here -

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/677747/RHI_Eligible_Heat_Use_Government_Response.pdf

 

RHI eligible heat use consultation… a lobbying success

In response to Renewable Heat Incentives (RHI) Consultation, the Government has decided NOT to remove all drying practices as eligible heat uses. Although it will be tightening up the rules of the RHI scheme and drying wood for fuel as well as drying waste WILL be removed.

Back in September last year, together with the NFU we responded to the Consultation on eligible heat, demonstrating strong agreement with other trade associations such as the Renewable Energy Association.

The NFU has said, “Drying is a legitimate part of the agricultural processing of food and animal feed products, where it may be required for reasons of food safety, quality and to meet contractual obligations on moisture content – sometimes under challenging ambient environmental conditions.”

The Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy has published the Government's full response and here is a brief summary of the changes:

• The Government does not intend to remove all drying practices as eligible heat uses. This includes drying of crops, and wood used for purposes other than fuels which will remain eligible (subject to the existing scheme rules around drying)

However, the Government will:

• Remove wood-fuel drying as an eligible heat use other than where the renewable heat installation is replacing a fossil fuel heat source. Where installations are considered to be in development, they will have an additional six months after the reforms take place to get an RHI application in. For plants that are in development, evidence will be required such as planning permission and purchase of equipment to be eligible for the proposed transition period
• Remove the drying, cleaning or processing of waste as an eligible heat use as soon as the reforms are implemented
• Further tighten the eligibility of swimming pools so that only swimming pools that are used for a municipal or commercial purpose receive Non-domestic RHI support

These changes will apply to new participants (those applying for accreditation after the new rules come into force) and existing participants who add capacity on or after the date the reforms come into effect. This is in addition to any participant who begins to use heat generated by an accredited installation for an ineligible heat use on or after the date the reforms come into effect.

Additionally, the Government will amend RHI scheme rules so that installations, where heat is produced predominantly for single domestic premises, will no longer be eligible under the Non-domestic RHI. The Government will not, at this time, amend the eligible heat use criteria in relation to any other heat uses.

These changes are currently anticipated for spring 2018. In effect, this will mean once the new regulations have gone through the parliamentary process which could be as little as six weeks from now

[Chalgravesteve]

23 minutes ago, Woodwanter said:

answers here -

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/677747/RHI_Eligible_Heat_Use_Government_Response.pdf

 

RHI eligible heat use consultation… a lobbying success

In response to Renewable Heat Incentives (RHI) Consultation, the Government has decided NOT to remove all drying practices as eligible heat uses. Although it will be tightening up the rules of the RHI scheme and drying wood for fuel as well as drying waste WILL be removed.

Back in September last year, together with the NFU we responded to the Consultation on eligible heat, demonstrating strong agreement with other trade associations such as the Renewable Energy Association.

The NFU has said, “Drying is a legitimate part of the agricultural processing of food and animal feed products, where it may be required for reasons of food safety, quality and to meet contractual obligations on moisture content – sometimes under challenging ambient environmental conditions.”

The Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy has published the Government's full response and here is a brief summary of the changes:

• The Government does not intend to remove all drying practices as eligible heat uses. This includes drying of crops, and wood used for purposes other than fuels which will remain eligible (subject to the existing scheme rules around drying)

However, the Government will:

• Remove wood-fuel drying as an eligible heat use other than where the renewable heat installation is replacing a fossil fuel heat source. Where installations are considered to be in development, they will have an additional six months after the reforms take place to get an RHI application in. For plants that are in development, evidence will be required such as planning permission and purchase of equipment to be eligible for the proposed transition period
• Remove the drying, cleaning or processing of waste as an eligible heat use as soon as the reforms are implemented
• Further tighten the eligibility of swimming pools so that only swimming pools that are used for a municipal or commercial purpose receive Non-domestic RHI support

These changes will apply to new participants (those applying for accreditation after the new rules come into force) and existing participants who add capacity on or after the date the reforms come into effect. This is in addition to any participant who begins to use heat generated by an accredited installation for an ineligible heat use on or after the date the reforms come into effect.

Additionally, the Government will amend RHI scheme rules so that installations, where heat is produced predominantly for single domestic premises, will no longer be eligible under the Non-domestic RHI. The Government will not, at this time, amend the eligible heat use criteria in relation to any other heat uses.

These changes are currently anticipated for spring 2018. In effect, this will mean once the new regulations have gone through the parliamentary process which could be as little as six weeks from now

Excellent.....so those of us who are already accredited will have absolutely no likelihood of increased competition in the kiln dried market for the next decade or so...... was clearly a masterstroke in getting our setup sorted out early doors......

 

 

[SbTVF]

Excellent.....so those of us who are already accredited will have absolutely no likelihood of increased competition in the kiln dried market for the next decade or so...... was clearly a masterstroke in getting our setup sorted out early doors......

 

 

 

Maybe I’m misunderstanding it, but it reads as though unless the applicant was already drying wood fuel with a fossil fuel then its not an eligible use?

 

I’m glad to see waste drying being removed. Heard of people being paid by their council to take green waste, which they were then drying, so they could burn it to dry more. All on a ridiculously expensive chp boiler so the pay back was something ridiculous like 6 months due to being paid for taking the waste!

 

 

EDIT: read further on to clarify.

 

“The changes described here will apply to new participants (those who apply for accreditation after the new rules come into force), to existing participants who add capacity and to existing participants who inform Ofgem that they have amended their existing heat use to begin drying wood-fuel. These changes will apply from the date the reforms come into effect”

[Woodwanter]

1 hour ago, SbTVF said:

 

Maybe I’m misunderstanding it, but it reads as though unless the applicant was already drying wood fuel with a fossil fuel then its not an eligible use?

 

I’m glad to see waste drying being removed. Heard of people being paid by their council to take green waste, which they were then drying, so they could burn it to dry more. All on a ridiculously expensive chp boiler so the pay back was something ridiculous like 6 months due to being paid for taking the waste!

 

 

EDIT: read further on to clarify.

 

“The changes described here will apply to new participants (those who apply for accreditation after the new rules come into force), to existing participants who add capacity and to existing participants who inform Ofgem that they have amended their existing heat use to begin drying wood-fuel. These changes will apply from the date the reforms come into effect”

Future proof your systems by applying now to dry everything. Bare in mind that you need a paper trail of fuel bought to dry then sold, you can't dry it for yourself I believe.

[SbTVF]

Future proof your systems by applying now to dry everything. Bare in mind that you need a paper trail of fuel bought to dry then sold, you can't dry it for yourself I believe.

Yeah we’re already sorted. The latest update to our existing application is with ofgem now. Was all part of the original proposed work schedule as we couldn’t physically do it all at once.

I’ll be content to run with our current kiln drying capacity and the rest can all be seasoned as far as I’m concerned. Much more than that and it’ll take over our lives completely!

[Chalgravesteve]

35 minutes ago, SbTVF said:

 

Yeah we’re already sorted. The latest update to our existing application is with ofgem now. Was all part of the original proposed work schedule as we couldn’t physically do it all at once.

I’ll be content to run with our current kiln drying capacity and the rest can all be seasoned as far as I’m concerned. Much more than that and it’ll take over our lives completely!

 

Likewise. I’m not going to change our existing system or add capacity. It’s fine as it is and there is plenty of scope to get more wood through the kiln over 12 months. 

[timbernut]

I seriously, seriously considered a GSHP installation, but reluctantly decided, that since I had "free" timber to burn, a gasifying boiler was the answer.
I had the perfect location and ground conditions for the slinky coils too.
(where, I now intend to construct my/our big pond/small lake)
And, the heating load was/is mostly underfloor.
Though with the contribution made by our wood stoves to the total heating load, and the wish for hot tap water, oil just might be a perfectly good fit.
Also, to get the grant, I would have been unable to self-install, AND be limited to only using "approved" installers=snake oil salesmen, therefore the quality of the install would most probably have been questionable.
regards
marcus

Can you not install coils in bottom of large pond/small lake? I'm sure a fella I worked for was on about installing gshp coils in his pond when he re dug/ dredged it.

[difflock]

On 2/4/2018 at 14:12, Chalgravesteve said:

I’m not sure I would want the downstream heat from my kiln heating a “normal” building. Once it’s passed over the logs to dry them it has become laden with moisture so it needs to be vented in my opinion. 

 

Taking heat off the boiler to the building as a separate draw is a different issue. 

 

 

Why not use this moist warm air to drive any commercially available (and grant aided?) air source heat pump, for the double-win.