Brit Girls - Fat

[spudulike]

Think Mr Village has been on the wacky backy and listening to Rush.....

 

[Gary Prentice]

5 hours ago, Mick Dempsey said:

It’s in ‘the lounge’ so it doesn’t have to be about trees.

 

Although delivered in a joking/trolling manner, Matelot has raised an interesting thread about obesity, which is fair enough in my book.

 

This thread was about obesity?

 

Wow, well it isn't now

[the village idiot]

3 hours ago, Vespasian said:

OK, done enough ruminating on this for the day.. 

 

Watched a vid or two, even watched one you got your idea's from I dare say... Sam Harris...  then watched one from someone arguing free will does exist, but turns out it was some bible basher gettin in his twopence worth.. 

 

Anyways, thinkin on the subject in my own time after watchin a few vids... 

 

Does it matter?..  does it matter if we do the things we do because of predeterminismn or through an act of free will?..   and the answer is NO.

 

Crime and criminality usually get dragged up on debates about free will.. I couldn't help it gov!!!!..  it was the other me that made me do it.. thus giving thieving *unt's an excuse and mitigation...

 

Well thats OK if your gonna lean on mitigation for your defense...   

 

Well, Mitigation ain't what it used to be.. originally mitigation was introduced to explain errant behavior, and help psychologists to understand criminal behavior... it was never intended to be used as a device to excuse criminal behavior..

 

Criminal behavior is what it is, its simple..  you break the law, the law breaks you..   No ifs or buts, no it wasn't my fault, just black and white you did it or you didn't..   if you did it, then you get shit on in court.....

 

 

If we go down the road of two actors at play, then this vid might give you an idea of the confusion that might entail in courts of law..

a Sovereign citizen in court arguing the toss..  not about free will but does have a bearing on the debate... plus its pretty funny...

 

 

 

I see where you are coming from Vesp but I think you misunderstand my argument.

 

In the case of criminal justice. It is not a 'two actors at play' scenario. The no free will scenario dictates that there is only one actor. The other element (the self) doesn't exist and by default can not carry out any actions.

 

The person who commits the crime commits the crime. My stance is that they should be blamed but not punished. They were unlucky. If they are perceived to be a further danger then they may need to be locked up to prevent similar happening again, but every effort should be made to 'rehabilitate' the actor.

 

We are not very good at this yet, but as we start to understand the brain much better things will improve.

 

It is interesting how this topic always seems to default to criminal justice, there is so much more to talk about. I do understand this, the desire for vengeance is extremely strong. One relevant fact here is that imprisonment increases the re offending rate of individuals. We should logically be looking at other options.

[Rough Hewn]

Mr village,
Do you actually believe you have no free will?

[Mick Dempsey]

12 minutes ago, Gary Prentice said:

This thread was about obesity?

 

Wow, well it isn't now

There were two threads sort of running in parallel, I think she was referring to the original one.

[the village idiot]

4 minutes ago, Rough Hewn said:

Mr village,
Do you actually believe you have no free will?

That is a very good question. Logically, absolutely but it is extremely difficult to accept in day to day experience.

I imagine it becomes much easier the more you erode the sense of Self, my progress along this path is painfully pathetic!

[Rough Hewn]

That is a very good question. Logically, absolutely but it is extremely difficult to accept in day to day experience.
I imagine it becomes much easier the more you erode the sense of Self, my progress along this path is painfully pathetic!

Ever read Asimov's foundation?
Free will of an individual but society is predictable?

[the village idiot]

2 minutes ago, Rough Hewn said:

Ever read Asimov's foundation?
Free will of an individual but society is predictable?

No I haven't read that. I will look it up.

 

Not sure if your second line is a description of the theme of the book or a question.

[Vespasian]

15 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

I see where you are coming from Vesp but I think you misunderstand my argument.

 

In the case of criminal justice. It is not a 'two actors at play' scenario. The no free will scenario dictates that there is only one actor. The other element (the self) doesn't exist and by default can not carry out any actions.

 

The person who commits the crime commits the crime. My stance is that they should be blamed but not punished. They were unlucky. If they are perceived to be a further danger then they may need to be locked up to prevent similar happening again, but every effort should be made to 'rehabilitate' the actor.

 

We are not very good at this yet, but as we start to understand the brain much better things will improve.

 

It is interesting how this topic always seems to default to criminal justice, there is so much more to talk about. I do understand this, the desire for vengeance is extremely strong. One relevant fact here is that imprisonment increases the re offending rate of individuals. We should logically be looking at other options.

I'll concede the point that we have no free will, but what I wont do is accept that that excuses crime and criminal behavior.. 

 

Free will or no free will, environment shapes events one way or the other..   the idea of time in prison concentrates the mind of criminals.. thus the mind is once again shaped by its environment..

 

I don't buy the argument that prison increases re offending rates as well...   I see it like this, an offender does time in prison, they find it ain't as bad as they imagined and calculate that crime is worth investing their time in seein as the punishment is not half as bad as they thought..

 

We should incarcerate people for shorter time spans but make prisons an appalling experience for the criminally minded, see if they want to go back after spending months in isolation with regular beating and starvation diets..   Murderers should be confined in the same manner but with the bonus of a lottery drawn out weekly that picks out one for weekly execution..

 

Lets see if that has an effect on a criminals state of mind... 

 

 

As to why we're now talking about criminal behavior, thats because it effects other people in a negative manner.. two people falling for each other and getting on with life doesn't have the same effect that some criminal running off with your TV and car does..

 

[Rough Hewn]

No I haven't read that. I will look it up.
 
Not sure if your second line is a description of the theme of the book or a question.

It's part of the theme.
[emoji106]