Insurance - what makes it invalid?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

It's a bit of an odd one, and I'm sure I know the answer, but since I don't have access to the policy small print I can't check and I just wanted to guage the general feeling - valid / invalid.

 

So it's not me, it's a mate....  Actually it's not a mate - it's an organisation that is staffed by chimps and they're as thick as treacle.

 

Org has PL & EL(CI) but has a total ignorance of the most basic H&S, if I said PUWER they'd think I was speaking Japanese and staff training stops at shoe lace tying.  

 

They have the PL & EL(CI) policies in place and I'm telling them they ain't worth a tuppeny toss because of the associated deficiencies.

 

Anyone throw me a life-line?  Have I missed something or am I over thinking it??

 

 

 

 

[Coletti]

Are we talking in relation to works and accompanying qualifications e.g. rigging and cs41?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Less complex; it is however a notably hazardous work based operation with no RAMS or training records for operatives. 

 

If, noting the ‘probability’ is fairly low, but the implications are significant, it did go wrong, are ins companies likely to want to examine supporting documentation? PUWER & H&S would NOT be satisfied.  

 

Regardless of ins payout, if it went RIDDOR and a H&S examination ensued, they’d be potless!

 

 

[TIMON]

Would probably depend on how ugly and bad tempered the insurance company’s loss adjuster’s wife was on the day.
[emoji51]

[spudulike]

my experience is from factory/engineering work, if an operative is employed to do a hazardous job (in my case operating heavy plant equipment - power presses, robotic assembly plant etc) then he must be qualified to do so and the company must have the records to show that they have the correct training/qualifications to do the job. This can be internal training by Management/Supervisors or other qualified staff and MUST include a section on safety - I used to tell them that the machine wouldn't hear their screams. That usually seemed to do it - that and the prospect of squashed limbs looking like pizzas!

 

If a person is injured and has over two consecutive days off (correct in my day), the H&S is called in and will investigate training systems, training records, written instruction and equipment control/servicing etc.

If someone has been given a hazardous job to do and the company hasn't checked out the guys qualifications and someone is hurt then if you were an insurer and facing a multi £1,000 claim what would you do.....

Think of a warehouse taking on a forklift driver and not checking his certificate - what happens when he clumps the high rise and takes out £50k of stock!!! Companies Liability I reckon!

 

 

 

[Justme]

Insurance will pay out & then seek to cover its loses from the company.

[matelot]

I'd imagine there is a clause somewhere that says "firm must take reasonable precautions regarding H&S". However I can't see an insurance firm not paying out if an employee loses a leg etc. 

 

Why are you raising this issue?

 

If I thought a firm was taking the piss regarding H&S I'd be contacting the HSE. Last year we had an ex employee tell porkies to the HSE about our construction site. The HSE came out for a look around and went on their merry way

 

Tell this organisation to look at "corporate manslaughter". If some guy dies and they've been negligent the directors can be sent to prison. If they don't have RAMS for dangerous work it sounds negligent.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Thanks all! It’s a “system audit” scenario. I agree the processes that are described above, it’s pretty basic stuff but not being understood or implemented by an ‘organisation’ for which I share a collective responsibility and I’m getting pretty impatient with the ignorance, arrogance and incompetence. I’ve highlighted some fairly basic omissions and inadequacies (thereby discharging MY responsibility) if the ‘organisation’ fail to get a grip of it I think I’ll just pass it along to HSE to have a look. Mr E, if you’re looking in, you know who I’m talking about! Muppets!! 

[eggsarascal]

Looking in. I hang on your every word!

 

The scenario that you have explained to me is NOT on.

 

you need to be shot of the top man, (I'll not name his position). I understand how frustrating it must be.

 

Hang in there........ Better being in the tent pissing out........

[devon TWiG]

One thing with insurance that seems odd to me is ...say for example I was pissed and crashed my car in to another car the insurers pay out to the 3rd parties car but not mine ... this is not the reason I do not drink and drive !!!!