Just Unlucky ?

[Mick Dempsey]

If you weren't, you weren't. I'll park it there.

 

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/general-chat/106556-desperado-staff-2.html#post1558452

 

Ahh mystery solved.

 

I didn't pm OMT, I did think your participation bizarre though.

[BARNSLEY BOB]

So right.

Find it unbelievable that people buy from garages and supermarkets and think thats log burning.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Arbtalk mobile app

[R5log]

Not an arborist or log producer / supplier here , simply a consumer ( or certainly not a Kiln Dried crate exporter to the UK , impression which you may get after reading )

 

First post , most likely will be the last

 

Below are just my experiences , not indented to come here and flame , just wanted to share.

 

Important : Please do not take offence

 

I will tell you why I will be buying kiln dried “ EU “ imported kiln dried crates , which seem to have gained popularity recent years and my reasons behind it but I have a feeling many people in the same boat as me

 

I have been burning logs for past 20 years and I am sad to tell you I think with one single exception, I have never bought logs from the same supplier, as a repeat customer.

 

Pretty much every purchase , some sort of bitter experience , to the point it has become an ordeal to look again when the log store runs low , what new sellers have emerged in the area and keep fingers crossed they will supply what they promise

 

Few recent purchases below and disappointments . . Which reflect not only this years disappointments but 20 years of log buying as a whole.

 

I built my own log store which takes exactly 4 m3 stacked volume logs .

First enquiry of the season was with the only second attempt to buy from same local log supplier ( the first was a bit of disappointment due to volume issues and quality of the logs but I hoped for the best and was willing to give another try in view of supporting “ local “ businesses )

 

Even though making the point very clear 4 m3 stacked volume of logs is what is required and paying for it ( £275 I believe he charged ) end result what I got once logs were delivered and stacked , 2.5 m3..

 

Now I understand loose volume is difficult to gauge vs stacked , surely there is a big discrepancy here ? I was not naive to expect 4m3 exact as it was ordered ( although it would have been a refreshing change ) but certainly not 40% less

 

Volumes offered / described by majority of log suppliers are vague , misleading and borderline amusing.

 

Scoop load , Pickup load , tonne bag , builders bag , bulk bag , dumpy bag , trailer load , transit load , list goes on ......

 

We are in 21st century , people expect little more clarity here , want to know what they are getting exactly and how much of it .

 

We are not familiar with what exact volume of your pickup truck load , even if we did know , it is unclear whether it will be delivered heaped , level or under , so clearly a pointless measurement unit.

 

And the wonderful bags , same again , rather than vague description of bag types , we need to know volume , those bags vary in sizes 50cm , 70cm , 90cm ? Up in the air , likewise full bag , filled up to 3 quarters full , what is it ?

 

When is he last time you walked into a petrol station and filled your car with non-universal unit of a bucket which its size differ from station to station ?

How difficult is it to quote reasonably accurate volume in universally accepted measurement rather than above?

 

Had numerous suppliers claim 90cm x 90cm x 90cm is a cubic meter “ cube “

Second experience of this year ( since I had to top up my log store unexpectedly early , due to being short changed 1.5m3 beginning of season )

Look online , come across the another site offering “ quality “ split seasoned firewood , cubic metre bag , £50 a bag , doesn’t sound bad right ? OK, let’s try them !

 

Enquiry on the phone first

Q) What size are the bags please? A)I don’t know exactly , they are “ big “

Q) What is in the mix please, all hardwood and / or what species ? A) 90% hardwood , might be few softwood

Q) I definitely do not want stuff that spits, pine etc , can you guarantee? A) Yes of course minimal softwood and no spitters

Q) What size of the logs please? A) Standard 25cm long

Great , right ? Order placed !

 

3 bags delivered , 85cm jobs ( approx. 80% full) , clearly not a “ cube “ , nowhere near it , not difficult to measure volume , height x width x depth =Volume . Even all mobile phones have calculators nowadays, it does not require a science degree to multiply 3 numbers to work out volume.

 

Sizes , he did say 25cm long , majority are approx 25cm , but I would say at least 20% 30cm long

 

Also , when you quote split logs , one would assume they are split in proportional thickness/width to the length of the logs , ie. say 10cm or 15cm max wide , right ? Errr , no , wrong

 

What he failed to mention however , was some of the logs are as wide as they are long ,25cm cube , I would say 30% of the total load . Now , I am one of the lucky owners of a Morso Squirrel ( I think they are fantastic ) , which is small but thankfully exceptionally deep chamber , but some of these lumps can no way fit . Even if they did , there is no way you could burn them anyway as that would leave zero room for adequate embers underneath . So I had to get my trusty log splitter out yesterday and re-split his “ split “ logs , some of them up to 3 times to get usable size logs out of the lumps

 

Quality of the wood ? Simply put , errr , terrible. Covered in dried mud / soil , cannot see the grain , looking dull grey / mud colour , churned in mud field to give the look / impression they are well seasoned / aged look and feel ?

The mix ? Oh , don’t get me started ! I would say at least 30% minimum pine varieties 20% other softwoods , I am no log expert but I know when I see hardwood.

 

The moisture levels of these quality “ seasoned “ logs ? Well, I happened to have my trusty moisture meter nearby , so let us take a measurement !

 

Measurements are taken from inside after I re-split . Admittedly the softwoods were not too bad , as expected , most around 27% inside , not ideal but they will burn eventually , they won’t sizzle at least ! But hardwood ones , not one single piece under 30% , found few as high as 40% .

 

Now , these Kiln dried crates , can I be blamed to say , this is where I will be spending my money on from now on?

 

Uniform size , tightly packed on crates , you know exactly what stacked volume you will be ( hopefully ) getting. You know exact wood species will be supplied

 

Are they expensive ? Not really , I have seen online retailers doing them for as low as £220 for 2 m3 delivered nationally , for Oak , Oak/Birch or Ash crates. To be honest , as far as the pure volume comparison I think it is probably even better value than the industry “ standard “ bags or truck loads etc..

I am not even fussed about it being kild dried , as I understand they will soak up moisture and come to more or less same level as properly air dried logs in couple of weeks. All I want to know what I am getting and exactly how much of it.

 

Now , as I stated at the beginning , this is not a flame or personal attacks , purely my bad experiences and wanted to share

 

If however , you are one of my suppliers , or ones like it , I am sure you would know who you are , it is time to change these silly practices , before you lose alot more of your customers to this new emerging Kiln dried import competition . People are not silly .

 

 

Get a life, your sooooo boring

[skyhuck]

Get a life, your sooooo boring

 

I found his post more interesting than a single one of your that I can recall.

[aspenarb]

Get a life, your sooooo boring

 

Perhaps but he has raised a valid question regarding quantities and quality, a few pointers from the suppliers would go a long way.

 

i.e. Our log loads have an average loose volume of x cube , moisture content of app x, weigh app. x, vary in length between x and x , have a softwood quantity mixed in of x and have a stacked volume of app X. Not a big ask really and would take away a lot of uncertainty from potential customers.

 

Can you tell I dont do logs anymore:laugh1:

 

Bob

[gensetsteve]

Nearly 200 posts loads of good advice. Did he buy any logs ?

[Woodworks]

I found his post more interesting than a single one of your that I can recall.