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Rob D

A walk on the darkside... Buy 1 get 1 free

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If I am honest, it would be better to offer the first 10 chains free to those buying a stihl or husqvarna and asking them to compare [probbably repeat customers would be best] Ask them to give unbiased critiques - this is of great value to manufacturer and they should pay you for it.

What is then written on an open forum will move things forward faster.

Just my thought on this.






If we did sell Stihl and Husky chainsaws which is most of the market they may have something to say about putting on a cheaper chain!



And I really wish it were otherwise but my experience of manufacturers is that even if you go out of your way to get info on their products and feedback - the best you get is a quick 'thankyou'

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OK, get your points, my comments on my opinion on risk...Chinese chain has been around for years...I've experienced Chinese stuff that fails when it shouldn't, simple things, so tend to steer clear..Competitive Price always attracts interest...


What is your own experience of running it on a saw and how it compares to other chain offerings by the chain vendors we all know and trust, some of which you sell ?


There is a report in the forestry journal (online) on the new Husqvarna chain...interesting read...





I use everything we sell and have been using these chains for a couple of months now. I'll feedback my findings in the future as don't want to bias other peoples opinions.





Was thinking about this last night - one comment that crops up regularly is that chain from China is 'cheap' and therefore 'nasty'.





Just to be clear - this chain is not that cheap to buy. It is cheaper than the big brands - but it is not as cheap as people probably think. We are selling it for a low price only as an intro offer - but in the long term it will not be that cheap - it will sit just behind the main brands.

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Ok - here is a couple of facts for you about how things work in China.





Chainsaw chain - many factories have been producing chain for 10+ years. China has a completely different take on chainsaw use for most of the home market - it is shockingly 'throw away'.



For an example - a family going away camping for a weekend will buy a cheap chainsaw - cut their wood for their campfire - and leave the chainsaw in the bin on the way out of the campsite.





For the home market China uses it's own produced steel for chainsaw chain cause it's cheap and customers buy it and view it as disposable.



For the export market they use imported German steel (and the good factories will show you this steel, where it was from, where it enters the production line etc etc). You'll pay a lot more for this.





Now say a UK importer thinks 'I'm going to sell Chinese chain' approaches a factory and buys a load of the chain made for the domestic market cause it's the cheapest. Or gets the wool pulled over their eyes ref what they're buying.... hence the cheap and nasty side.





China has the ability to produce very good products (and already does) - and it is not a backward country. Their train stations are like airports. On their bullet trains you can pull the food tray down and balance a coin on it's end with it not falling over going 300 kph.



They are well ahead of us in many ways.






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In October our manager Laurence visited Zhejiang province where most most of the factories are situated in China.



He was out there for 2 weeks (bit of sight seeing as well). Laurence can actually speaks some Chinese which went down well!





We had already narrowed our 'search' for a factory down to 2 or 3. One of our suppliers has his own factory out there and he acted as a guide.





A comment from the owner of one factory - it took him 5 years to learn how to make chisel chain. When you bend metal it makes a natural semi chisel shape. In the end he found the method for making chisel chain.



Making chainsaw chain is not easy.





Once we have confirmed which factory to go with we will look to get the chain independently tested before it comes over here. It is just not viable to do this at this stage on small sample orders.









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PS will not be showing pics and info about the actual factories we visited - not yet anyway. Otherwise we are simply giving away our hard work to other competitors.





Ref Husky X cut chain - I've read the article - no real facts there same as the video they made - why is that I wonder? With all that testing equipment if their chain is so good why not broadcast some facts?



The only main benefit that comes across is that they have taken pains to make the chain in an environmentally friendly way - so hats off to them in that respect.





Oregon are not shy in comparing chains - take their new TXL chain. Yes no doubt a biased test.









Or what about some tests as the one attached? (Diatop chain is another chain brand we will likely stock in the near future - likely it is sourced from China).



(The Chinese chain labelled as such in the test results was not one of the ones we are looking at stocking).







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OK, so you are trying the chain yourself. So for someone commercial to switch and benefit financially from switching the first trigger is the risk (I'm not taking just safety here) include the economics. So capital cost, frequency of sharpenings, chain life/replacement frequency, how many times can you sharpen, cutting performance..etc


If any of these is radically poorer take up by pro tree people will be low.


A tree crew under time constraints to get the days work done ringing up wouldn't be happy if there days cutting took more time or they overrun due to the chain etc...

Different for occasional users...not so important...


What could be worthwhile is a number of organisations working together in a benchmarking exercise on chains include the well knowns and some of these you're trying to get to a reasonable position in the market.

Are forestry journal, forestry research (Roslin,) doing anything ? Is it worth talking to them ?


You are making a serious and passionate case about this, got to respect that...

Even odd VAG group parts are made by suppliers in China...


If you can get some people working with you and a proper case study together where the economics and other aspects stack up..., not just a few random guys feeding back on this forum on a cheap Chinese chain purchase....that could be worthwhile

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Manufacturing bases develop over time.


In the 1950s and early 1960s, Japan was renowned for producing a cheap, low quality product ('Made in Japan' was synonymous with 'Rubbish').


China can present a challenge to engage with as part of a B2B supply chain due to its cultural approaches to IP and protectionism and this does have a knock-on consequence for its rate of development in certain areas. However, the need for quality improvement is generally recognised and they (and I do mean they collectively as much of it is state-sponsored) are increasingly buying in public domain know-how, alongside their own development programmes. The capability to produce top quality products is on a very rapid growth curve and it is probably already true that capability outstrips reputation by a long way - to an extent being addressed at the moment by producing sub-components for many better known brands so that the country of origin is less visible. Apple and Omega spring to mind for starters.


I anticipate that over time reputation will catch up - I would not be surprised if 10yrs from now, 'Made in China' was synonymous with solid quality and performance.



Edited by agg221

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This is a starting point. We'll see what people think of which chains and narrow the list down to one of the manufacturers.


Then we will start rolling it out and looking to get Forestry Journal and others to review it.


We don't want a chain that is half the price and half as good. Our aim is for a chain that is close to the top brands at around 60% of the price.


It won't happen overnight!





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Buy it, don't buy it simple , even if you did give them away for free Rob people would still feckin whinge.

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