Too many tree surgeons?!

[Mick Dempsey]

Limes are an exception, same as willows, planes and a few others will take a later in life topping to start a pollard cycle.

 

It's aesthetically less pleasing (at least for the first couple of years) but can work to maintain a tree in a restricted space.

 

Point is to lump all trees as just trees and should be trimmed/treated in the same way is nonsensical.

 

 

[WesD]

4 hours ago, Mick Dempsey said:

I toped these trees, do you fink there gunna dye?

Absolutely not!!

 

I was in France this year Sablet/l’orange/vaison la romaine and the amount of Planes that where in a pollard cycle was impressive. Avenues upon avenues upon avenues of planes all in a cycle they looked in excellent health and these where big trees with probably 3 options 1) pollard cycle to keep them for as long as possible 2) remove them in fear of allowing them to grow too large 3) leave them and wait for them to fail and cause damage to buildings, roads, cars, people etc. 

 

I think if the decision was mine I would have chosen the same option as the French have. 

[Richard 1234]

So from these replies to my question, it seems that trees have to be allowed to grow as big as possible no matter where they are?

[Marula]

Limes are an exception, same as willows, planes and a few others will take a later in life topping to start a pollard cycle.

 

It's aesthetically less pleasing (at least for the first couple of years) but can work to maintain a tree in a restricted space.

 

Point is to lump all trees as just trees and should be trimmed/treated in the same way is nonsensical.

 

 

 

There's a difference between a pollard and topping a tree. Just because a tree puts out epicormic growth after being topped does not mean it's now a pollard.

Pollards are never started after a tree has started to produce heartwood. Pollards are started when the tree is 100% live wood precisely because the tree will have the ability to engage wall four, this then creates the knuckle with buds in the bark.

Epicormic growth is in no way a sign of vitality, a limes genetic predisposition is to put out excessive growth after having their carbohydrates supply rate is interrupted, this does not mean they'll live their full life cycle. Limes have excellent defence and reaction to injury into the sapwood but do not have a strong polyphenol filled heartwood. Topping a lime in an area with Armillaria for instance is effectively a death sentence regardless of epicormic output.

 

Willows are designed to grow fast and reestablish from failed limbs, because of this they have very little in the way of a phenol strong heartwood.

 

Planes do stand out, they are extremely hardy all round and can be hit quite hard, however a large wound opening the heartwood and it's open season to an array of fungi.

 

Like I said earlier, just because that tree grows another 30 years after it was topped does not mean it survived, it merely means it took that long to die. That last part is a rough quote from my lecturer.

 

I would agree if a tree like a lime needs saving in a small space or is unstable then do it, but My initially comment was about the topping of trees and calling it a reduction to customers.

[Mick Dempsey]

Ahhh, I thought there would be a lecturer in there somewhere.

 

 

[Marula]

Absolutely not!!
 
I was in France this year Sablet/l’orange/vaison la romaine and the amount of Planes that where in a pollard cycle was impressive. Avenues upon avenues upon avenues of planes all in a cycle they looked in excellent health and these where big trees with probably 3 options 1) pollard cycle to keep them for as long as possible 2) remove them in fear of allowing them to grow too large 3) leave them and wait for them to fail and cause damage to buildings, roads, cars, people etc. 
 
I think if the decision was mine I would have chosen the same option as the French have. 

Yes but the French have a history of excellent pollard cycles on their urban trees, it's part of the way they do things over there with regards to planning. We had an apprentice go over and work with one of their councils and their appy came over to us.
We tend to let it grow to big and then try and deal with it, Bristol managed some of their street Planes well but I've heard they not going to continue this anymore.

[WesD]

Just now, Marula said:

 

Yes but the French have a history of excellent pollard cycles on their urban trees, it's part of the way they do things over there with regards to planning. We had an apprentice go over and work with one of their councils and their appy came over to us.
We tend to let it grow to big and then try and deal with it, Bristol managed some of their street Planes well but I've heard they not going to continue this anymore.

 

Shame! 

 

I know now what you are aiming for ie topping and pollarding. 

 

Trees have a life expectancy that said like humans they don’t all reach it pruned, topped, pollarded or left alone. 

[Marula]

So from these replies to my question, it seems that trees have to be allowed to grow as big as possible no matter where they are?

It's about managing a tree at the correct stage. Formative pruning has its place in a trees life cycle, pollarding the same.
This conversation started by me commenting on someone smashing the tops off oaks and beech trees near me and calling it a reduction, a reduction is a reduction and topping is topping, simple.

[Steve Bullman]

1 hour ago, flatyre said:

Not sure if this is relevant, but its easy to judge a job on the drive by without knowing what the customer wanted, condition of the tree, etc. I know I've been asked to butcher trees by customers who don't know the science, and reluctantly done it, at the end of the day if that's what they want then they'll get it, at least if I do it the cuts will be clean and the maximum amount removable won't be exceeded.

I’ve carried out heavy reductions on trees that had been subject to sever due back many times.  To any observer after the fact the tree would have simply looked massacred.  Very easy to judge someone’s work without knowing the full story 

[Marula]

I’ve carried out heavy reductions on trees that had been subject to sever due back many times.  To any observer after the fact the tree would have simply looked massacred.  Very easy to judge someone’s work without knowing the full story 

I'd agree with this, but like I said earlier, a reduction and topping are two different things. I can see if a healthy tree has been needlessly topped, I can also see if a tree has been topped to saved it from structural failure and if so I have no issue.
I've topped many big old trees, but the Work was carried out to try and prevent failure of the structure, ultimately leading to death.